Comments on: OK, How About Syria?

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 02 May 2008 05:18:31 +0000

To understand this correctly, this is part of a sermon by Moses, and it is controlling precedent. 🙂

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 02 May 2008 05:14:05 +0000

This is the penalty for bearing false witness, and is meant in somewhat allegorical form. It is not the same thing as Hammurabi’s code.

15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth; at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be establishment

16 If an unrighteous witness rise up against any man to bear perverted witness against him;

17 then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before HaShem, before the priests and the judges that shall be in those days.

18 And the judges shall inquire diligently; and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;

19 then shall ye do unto him, as he had purposed to do unto his brother; so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee.

20 And those that remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil in the midst of thee.

21 And thine eye shall not pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Fri, 02 May 2008 04:00:44 +0000

Michael, while it is, indeed, found in the Code of Hammurabi it is also found in the Old Testament:

Deuteronomy 19:21 “And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”

That is the fifth book and included in the Torah.

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 02 May 2008 02:56:51 +0000

Badtux, you are mistaken. The eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth is Babylonian law, code of Hammurabi stuff.

By: Badtux

Badtux — Fri, 02 May 2008 02:19:19 +0000

PS – as for the notion that this was a nuclear reactor, Airhead Hayden can kiss my fine-feathered ass. All satellite evidence supports the notion that this was an equipment building associated with the water treatment plant uphill from the building, and maybe some munitions were stored there also simply because the Syrians stash munitions all over the place much the same way Saddam did (and for much the same reason) — maybe. A nuclear reactor? Yeah right, pull the other flipper. There just isn’t enough supporting buildings at that site for that, not to mention *no security* — no fences, no security perimeter, no gates, no SAM installation to shoot down attacking aircraft, nada. You can bet that any nuclear facility in Syria would be guarded with pretty much everything Syria had capable of shooting down attackers. The fact that there’s no such installations visible anywhere near this facility… well, that pretty much says the story all by itself.

– Badtux the Observant Penguin

By: Badtux

Badtux — Fri, 02 May 2008 02:13:02 +0000

I am in correspondence with certain people inside Israel and they pretty much verify what Bryan has said about the role of Judaic law in the governance of the state of Israel. There is no concept of a separation between Judaic law and Israeli law in Israel, any more than there is a concept of a separation between Islamic law and Iranian law in Iran, and as in Iran, it is the ultra-orthodox radicals who are responsible for interpreting the law in a way that can be placed into the Israeli lawbooks. Women who wear pants can be spit upon and harassed by the black robes, people who don’t obey the Sabbath can be beaten with walking sticks by the black robes, and the Israeli police shrug and say there is nothing they can do because the black robes are the religious scholars are the law. And when the moderates try to bring the concept of a separation between religious law and secular law to Israel, they are berated by the black robes and told, “you are talking Western civilization and we are not Western, we are Jewish, go back to [insert original country of origin] if you don’t like how we run Israel” (note — they say this even to native-born Israelis, everybody seems to know where your parents or grandparents or great-grandparents came from in Israel because it is a very small country that is smaller than New York City in population, and of course Israel is a land of immigrants since there were very few Jews in Palestine in 1900 and most of the Arab population was ethnically cleansed in 1948).

So anyhow, the only law that Israel feels bound by is Judaic law. Which, if you remember, includes that “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” thingy. Judaic law is *not* Christian law, and our notions of Christian charity are not part of Judaic law. Israel does not feel bound by international law because international law is not founded upon the principles of Judaism, much as I suspect the Iranians don’t feel bound by international law because international law is not founded upon the principle of Islam. And for Israel, it’s not just any Judaism that counts. It is the Orthodox and Ultra-orthodox Judaism that counts. Reform and Conservative Jews need not apply.

– Badtux the Religiously-tired Penguin

By: Kryten42

Kryten42 — Fri, 02 May 2008 01:41:40 +0000

Sorry for the delay in responding Michael. Timezones are a pain! 😉

I have nothing against the Jewish people, and not even against Israeli’s as such, I even know a couple I chat with occasionally who live in Israel (one in the Army) and hate what’s happening. I guess I see the modern day Israel as similar to the current day America. Both are controlled by a very small minority with their own private agenda’s that do not bode well for the World and Peace on Earth! I (and many others) simply look at what they do! We don’t care what either nation says any more. As far as *we* out here are concerned, neither *Nation* can be trusted to be honest about anything. However, as I said in another comment, we feel sorry for the people who just want to live their lives in Peace and get on with their lives but have to live within a system that won’t allow them to do so! Both Nations are controlled by fear, and in both cases, it’s mostly contrived.

I am not anti-simetic, or anti-Muslim, or anti-atheist, or anti-Christian, or… etc, etc! I am very much anti-bullshit! And there is FAR too much of that in the World today!

Historically, the Nation of Israel is as guilty as any other Nation (including Christian Nations) of causing trouble and pain in the World. This is an argument as old as time! I and I surely do not propose or attempt to settle it here. 🙂

Every Nation, no matter if American, Israel, Australia, England, China, etc, has it’s good and bad. Sometimes the bad takes control. We recently got rid of our bad and have much work to do in fixing the damage caused. I think American and Israel now need to clean their houses and let the World get on with their own lives! It seems that neither the USA or Israel (as with the UK until recently), and China and Russia can stop interfering in the affairs of others, and then cry foul when it bites them in the ass! Oh yes, the Nations talk a good load of reasons and rationalizations for interfering, but it’s all bullshit! It’s all driven by their own irrational fears and power and control! I spent time in the Intelligence community, and I saw LOT of the truth behind the scenes about what many Nations did and why… All the “you scratch my back and I’ll kiss your ass” deals, Al the “You help us deal with this little two-bit nation here, and we’ll help you out when you need it” BS. My crew spent so much time watching all the crazy politicians of all nations doing back room deals, we had no time to worry about what some little terrorist group was up to! We would see an American and an Israeli politician get together for a chat, and then some time later, something would come up for a vote in the UN affecting Israel in some way, and see America vote (or veto a vote) in Israels favor, and then later, Israel would do some favor for America. Happened all the time, and with several Nations. Many nations seem to think that Australia is a great, safe place for all the covert chats! Idiots.

I can’t stand hypocrisies no matter what their forms or reasons. The minute ANY Nation (or group of people) begins to believe they are above all others, or better than any other, that is the end of Peace in the World! I believe it’s WAY past time to end all that bullshit! I know I’ve had enough of it!

You reap what you sow. Or if you prefer, karma can be a bitch!

And thanks Bryan for your comments. 🙂

Cheers!

By: Bryan

Bryan — Fri, 02 May 2008 00:45:24 +0000

You are free to believe whatever you wish, Michael, but being forced into isolation within a larger population, and subjected to random fits of violence is not the mark of integration in a society. The state of Israel represents a segment of the Jewish people who all share a common history, religion, and language.

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 01 May 2008 23:01:24 +0000

Bryan, the history of the Jews is not separate from the West, but intertwined. I maintain that the modern state of Israel is a different entity from the Jewish people.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Thu, 01 May 2008 18:43:08 +0000

Michael, that’s an historical reference to the fact that the Jewish people have maintained their own set of laws without regard to the culture in which they are located. While many are religious in nature, there are some things that have secular purposes, but do not vary. That has led to them being forced into certain professions and excluded from others without the prejudice of local laws being taken into consideration.

For example, investigating the murder of an observant Jew [or Muslim] is complicated by their burial laws which oppose an autopsy and require speedy burial.

The legal system of Israel is based on their religion, unlike the Western systems.

Israel politicians use this to the detriment of non-Jews whenever it suits them, even if the law doesn’t actually address an issue. Certain parties base all of their platform on religious considerations that tend to block any argument.

This isn’t new and it is a major impediment to opposing the worst of Israeli policies. Most people aren’t well enough grounded in Jewish law to point out where the policies are wrong, and not supported by the law.

The West followed a different path, and has attempted for a very long time to separate the religious and the secular, there is no major move to do that in Israel, which is a point of conflict between some American Jews and Israel.