😀

the only bible story that ever really made an impression on me when i was a child was the tale of the good samaritan. seems to me the world would be a better place if more people had paid attention that day in sunday school.

actually, there was one other story that made an impression, of a sort: jonah and the whale. that’s probably what provided the initial spark for my childhood dream of growing up to be an oceanographer [which i sort of did become, if you count studying the metabolic process of saltwater bacteria as oceanography].

that said, i’ll comment some more 😉 … i love reading pz when he’s blogging pure science, and i hugely appreciate his vigorous pushback against the religionists who want to dismantle science and science education, but he can be a real asshole when he launches into the more general religion vs atheism debate, so much so that i quit reading his blog a long time ago.

And his revenge was not specifically targeted against those people who had offended him–he issued a blanket invitation to indiscriminate sacrilege.

that was my reaction too.

I’m not saying that death threats are irrelevant or should be ignored. But what PZ Myers did in response to those death threats was neither helpful nor appropriate, and the fact that he is alleged to have received them does not excuse what he did or mitigate it in any way.

I do consider PZ Myers an asshole. I’ve thought that for years, and this present incident does nothing to change my opinion of him. Unlike Bill DonoWho and his minions, however, I don’t think that gives me any right to threaten PZ–and if I had done so, PZ would have every right to swear out a complaint against me and have me prosecuted. Which is what he should have done, but apparently did not, in this instance.

And I’m sorry, but your appeal to the Golden Rule fails. To be sure, the people who were making threats against PZ and the kid failed on that test–and there will be consequences for that failure, according to our faith tradition. But the Golden Rule is not just a Christian precept. Perhaps PZ should have thought about applying it in this case. But he didn’t. And his revenge was not specifically targeted against those people who had offended him–he issued a blanket invitation to indiscriminate sacrilege. That’s tantamount to me deciding to cut off all redheaded drivers in traffic from now on because one particular redheaded driver cut me off. It isn’t even a proportional response.

PZ’s entire schtick revolves around how he, as a scientist, is ruled by reason and governed by logic. His behavior in this mess, however, suggests that the reality is quite otherwise.

It would be different if he were a member of the clergy, or belonged to a monastic order. His superiors would then have the ability to force him to shut the hell up, on pain of being kicked out. But absent that connection, they don’t have much in the options basket.

Mapaghimagsik, my original remark was in response to hipparchia’s, not yours, and she referred to whether the kid was in danger… presumably of possible nut-case violence. IIRC, the kid’s name, or some other identifying info, was already in the news; otherwise, PZ would never have known of the incident. Most of us on “our” side of the political spectrum never contemplate publishing home phone numbers, employers’ names, etc. in the first place; I hardly see that as a significant constraint on what I blog. Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding the thrust of your remark, in which case, please feel free to enlighten me.

“A statistical correlation has been demonstrated between high profile suicides reported in newspapers and the suicide rate after the newspaper releases the information.” – Mapaghimagsik

Yet newspapers and news sites continue to report high-profile suicides. Are you saying that there are things that newspapers may report, but that are taboo to blogs? I can’t agree with you there.

“My other thought is annecdotal: If people are not affected by what they read/see, then our whole ad industry is a big waste of money.” – Mapaghimagsik

Don’t tempt me to say I agree with the “then” independent of the “if.” 🙂

A statistical correlation has been demonstrated between high profile suicides reported in newspapers and the suicide rate after the newspaper releases the information. There also seems to be impact between *how* the suicide is reported and the suicide rate (Page 1 vs Page 6, celebrity or not, etc) While the specifics are debated, there is general agreement that there is an impact.

My other thought is annecdotal: If people are not affected by what they read/see, then our whole ad industry is a big waste of money.

If we start basing our decisions of what not to blog on the possibility that some nut-case may be triggered by our posts into performing a violent act, we may as well all pack it in right now.

I cite the Michelle Malkin example. She posted addresses and names and wailed about something “being done”.

So in short, We *do* have to base our decisions on what not to blog based on nutbags. Nutbags have always ruined the fun for the rest of us.

PZ’s actions don’t cross that line in my opinion, but it would be a double standard to condemn Michelle Malkin’s actions and say that we don’t have to self-censor.

I did want to do some more work on this actually, I had to draft it in a bit of a hurry for LM, but I did fact check it. I also updated it a bit a year or so ago for another post I decided not to make. It was originally just after the Terri Schiavo debacle, to frame a context for you. 🙂

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The top 10 (by estimated number of adherents) Religions in the World are:

Branch, Religion, Number of Adherents (estimated)
Catholic, Christianity, 1,050,000,000
Sunni, Islam, 940,000,000
Vaishnavites, Hinduism, 580,000,000
Orthodox/Eastern Christian, Christianity, 240,000,000
Shaivites, Hinduism, 220,000,000
Conservative Protestant, Christianity, 200,000,000
Mahayana, Buddhism, 185,000,000
Liberal Protestant, Christianity, 150,000,000
Theravada, Buddhism, 124,000,000
Shiite, Islam, 120,000,000

It should be noted that ‘Catholic’ refers to ‘Roman Catholic’ and ‘Greek Catholic’ branches, as well as smaller branches such as Old Catholic, Aglipayan (Philippines), Uniate, Ukrainian Catholics, Maronites, etc. The diversity in Catholicism is a primary reason some Catholics don’t refer to themselves, or like the term, ‘Roman Catholic’ or ‘Roman Catholic Church’, particularly as some of the smaller Catholic branches are ‘non-Latin Rite Catholics’. You might think that it’s the smaller branch adherents that don’t want the terms used, but it is in fact primarily the Roman Catholics themselves, probably because they don’t want these smaller branches of ‘non-Latin Rite Catholics’ to be seen to be included in their group. So much for tolerance, understanding, etc. 🙂 I’m sure they long for the old laws regarding heresy. 😉

It’s also curious that there is no branch of Judaism in the top 20, given their large influence on the World’s affairs. Judaism, like Christianity, has sects (branches). There are 5 main branches: Conservative, Unaffiliated and Secular, Reform, Orthodox and Reconstructionist. Note that the Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist branches are not officially recognised, even though the Conservative branch is one of the two largest. Of these, the ‘Conservative’ and ‘Unaffiliated and Secular’ are the largest with an estimated 4.5 million adherents each. I suppose that gives the Jewish branches one thing in common with the Christian branches, they don’t get on with their own branches, so it’s no wonder they are intolerant to other Religions. I suppose it makes the Jews appear less tolerant than even the Catholics, at least the Roman Catholics acknowledge the smaller Catholic branches exist, though they may not agree with them.. 🙂 I was amused when I discovered that the primarily Secular and Othadox Jews won’t officially acknowledge the largest Jewish branch, the Conservatives.

So, I have to wonder why some Evangelicals within the USA are keen to support Israel, though I suspect it’s simply to cause trouble since they seem not to care about or understand the Jewish branches (understandable, since they also show great ignorance of Christian and Islam dynamics). They say it’s to help the Jews fight the Muslims. That shows a great deal of ignorance since there are 5 Jewish sects, each with their own agendas, and who don’t agree with each other, and there is no such religion as *Muslim*, though it is generally understood they refer to Islam, which again shows ignorance as Islam is composed of 4 primary branches (and like Christianity, many smaller branches), of which the Sunni are almost as large (denominationally) as the Catholic branch of Christianity with almost 1 billion Sunni’s globally (compared to about 15million Jews of all branches globally) According to the CIA World Fact Book (2004), Israel is composed of: Jewish 76.4%, Muslim 16%, Arab Christians 1.7%, other Christian 0.4%, Druze 1.6%, unspecified 3.9%.

Perhaps it has something to do with another interesting statistic. Adherents for the Jewish Branches in Israel were not all born in Israel. According to the CIA World Fact Book of 1996, Israel Jews were composed of: Europe/America-born: 32.1%, Israel-born: 20.8%, Africa-born: 14.6%, Asia-born: 12.6%, plus a large non-jewish minority of 19.9% (mostly Arab). It’s also curious that this statistic is missing from recent Fact Books. 🙂

So, there you go! World Religions in a nutshell! LOL It’s hardly any wonder than nobody get’s along. It seems that’s what Religion is designed for, chaos and confusion. 🙂 Oh wait… isn’t that Satan’s job according to the Bible? Now, isn’t that a curious coincidence! 😀

I also find it curious that, in the USA especially, within the Protestant branch(es) of Christianity today, most significant divisions with regard to culture, practice and doctrine are not between denominational families, but between ‘Liberal’ and ‘Conservative’ Protestants. It is curious to me that they have divided along the lines of ‘Liberal’ and ‘Conservative’, it makes them sound… political. 🙂 I suppose it’s hardly surprising really. The Stated Clerk of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) was one Clifton Kirkpatrick (There’s a good old Irish name for you) who *retired* from his position after his links to one Dr. Frist (R-TN) were discovered. I could write a book about Frist, even just about his involvement (some might say, quack meddling) in the tragic story of Terry Schiavo. Ahhh… the compassion of Religion!

So, how’s that ‘Separation of Church and State’ working for you? 😉 LOL

The ‘Liberal wing’ of the Church is composed of two main groups: Progressive Christianity and Evolutionary Christianity. Generally, the ‘Conservatives’ *believe* that the he Bible is the actual Word of God. Generally, the ‘Liberals’ *believe* that the Bible is a wide-ranging human document. And in the middle, they generally believe that the ‘Bible contains the Word of God. However, it also contains material that must be rejected because it has always been opposed to the will of God.’ Hmmmm.

The ‘Conservative wing’ of the Church is composed mainly of the Evangelicals. However, the term “Evangelical” is an umbrella term which Includes Christian Identity, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and Reconstructionist, some Baptist and many other groups of denominations. Some examples of Evangelical denominations are: Assemblies of God, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, black Protestants, African Methodist Episcopal, African Methodist Episcopal Zion; Church of Christ, Churches of God in Christ, Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod, National Baptist Church, National Progressive Baptist Church, Nondenominational, Pentecostal denominations, and the Presbyterian Church in America. Some Theologians would also include as Evangelicals the conservative members and reform movements within such mainline denominations as the Episcopal Church, USA and the United Methodist Church as well as the Presbyterian Church (USA). The primary concerns of this group include: Abortion access, Biblical inerrancy, Creation Science vs Evolution, Equal rights for homosexuals and Same-sex marriage. Note that this conservative/liberal split is seen also within Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, etc.

“Now I beseech you… that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” Paul, 1 Corinthians 1:10, The Christian Scriptures (New Testament), KJV.

In the early years, Christianity was divided into three major religious movements: the Gnostics, Jewish Christians, and Pauline Christians. Almost all current Christian groups trace their lineage back to the Pauline Christian movement. Now, in the USA alone, there are over 1,000 Christian faith groups! They profess to follow the teachings of Christ and the Apostle Paul, and yet it’s patently obvious that they don’t. *sigh*

That’s human nature for you, and so much for Christ. Poor guy… he went through Hell (literally in the end, according to the Bible) for nothing it seems. Nobody really listened to him. For the most part, Religion is just a cover for personal beliefs, control, power, and of course, that *root of all evil*, money! Hallelujah!

BTW, I am simply someone who does *NOT* believe in organised religions of any kind any longer! And will not unless I find one that actually practices what their particular *book of God* preaches, or at the very least, what they preach. I suspect I’ll be long gone before that ever happens. To me, any organised religious group has little difference to other social groups, like Rotary Club, or the Red Cross, etc. With the possible exception that groups like Rotary actually help people, and mostly practice what they preach. 🙂

It’s easy for me to see why more people are moving towards Islam. It may not be what Christians believe to be the true word of God, but for the most part, many Islamic faith’s actually do follow their book. For many people, modern Christianity = hypocrisy. To paraphrase what many conservative *Christians* like to say: Baby Jesus really is crying.

i say sure! post it! but this isn’t my blog, and it’s not my head you’d be bringing death threats down on….