“True Believers” lack the profit incentive and will destroy anything and everything, so no one really wants to sponsor them. That was a major problem of financing the anti-Soviet campaign in Afghanistan, it gave resources to a lot of “True Believers” and there is no way of controlling them.

Fortunately Atta was suicidal, because he knew how to formulate and execute a plan.

Terrorists come in all shapes and sizes. From the anti-social, the angry, the disenchanted, to the extreme fanatic. State-sponsored terrorism is generally either politically or ideologically motivated. It’s seen as a tool in the arsenal, usually a tool of last resort, though some, especially the Israeli’s tend to use it at any time, which is primarily why (along with continued meddling by the USA) state-sponsored and other forms of terrorist groups have been growing in the Mid East. Many of the non-state sponsored groups are well known to the states that sponsor their own groups (such as Turkey, Russia, Israel and Pakistan for example) and are kept on a leash. An outside group will be allowed some freedom, but if they try to do anything that the State(s) believe to be detrimental to their goals, will he severely dealt with. The states allow them because they are useful for recruitment, and as a disinformation tool, and also to take the fall if/when needed. Most states allow. and even encourage, some mavericks as they keep the eyes of the World on themselves. It’s all a very complicated chess game, and there are some experienced masters at the game. The States keep an eye on each other, and ensure that their interests aren’t compromised. For most, what terrorism they will allow or enable is subject to a serious risk and cost-benefit analysis of sorts. 🙂 If they believed that destroying a major refinery, or drilling platform was in their interests, they would do it. Terrorism is not really about creating fear as an end in itself, fear is simply a means to either force a nation or group to react, or to make them hesitate, or to generate some emotional or physical response, or to drain resources, etc. You only have to look at the USA for the past eight years to see how it works. Everything that has gotten the USA where it is today, the USA did themselves in reaction to a single act of terrorism. Al-Qaeda or whatever state(s) sponsored them certainly received a massive return on their investment. If the goal was to retard growth in the USA, or force massive financial losses, or to make the USA seem impotent, they succeeded. Most American’s (even at high levels of Government) don’t even understand who Al-Qaeda is. They were originally a Sunni Islamic movement (and still are), and the Sunni are the largest Islamic denomination (roughly equivalent to the Catholic Church). And so long as Al-Qaeda follows Sunni Islamic belief and law, the Sunni’s will help them. The original objective of Al-Qaeda’s include the end of foreign influence in Muslim countries and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate. The USA was seen to be the biggest (though not the only one by far) meddler here. Even today, nobody (at least outside of the Sunni) knows how big Al-Qaeda is, where they are located, how they are funded and supplied, etc. This fact alone was enough for me and many others to believe as soon as the announcement was made that the Invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with stopping Al-Qaeda. Afghanistan was a known training ground, but so were other countries, such as the Sudan and Pakistan.

Of course, there are many questions regarding the events of 9/11/2001, but one thing I (and anyone who’s had any training in these things) knows, it’s that it couldn’t have happened without significant inside support.

Well, this is turning into a dissertation. As I said, it’s a complex subject and there are no simple answers. However, thinking that a terrorist per se is simply some kind of low caste evil person, is a very foolish mistake. Whatever way I look at the actions of Americans before, during and after the events of 9/11, all I see are more questions! Anyone who is familiar with Ockham’s Razor would know that this chaos within the USA is being carefully and artificially maintained. As an aside, though what has become known as Ockham’s razor is attributed to William Ockham, he is not in fact the sole creator . It is thought that though Ockham stated the principle in various ways, the most popular version in use today was written by John Ponce in 1639. IN any case, the tenets have stood the test of time. Alternatively, one could use the simpler to understand *Engineering Maxim*, that is: “Keep It Simple, Stupid” (also known as the KISS principle). Thus, by the way, proving Ockham’s Razor! 😉 LOL One of the tenets of the maxim is attributed to Thomas Aquinas: “If a thing can be done adequately by means of one, it is superfluous to do it by means of several; for we observe that nature does not employ two instruments where one suffices.” I will have to admit that I do prefer KISS, possibly because of my engineering background. 😉

We have done things, so we know how to do things, or at least how to figure out how to do things.

The majority of people today are not being taught the basics. They depend on calculators because they never had to learn how to do it without a calculator. Something needs to be done and they don’t have any idea what tools are needed.

They don’t attack the pipeline because they don’t know how to attack it. Usually they blow up a section of pipe, which is a one day fix. They don’t know to blow up a control point, because they don’t know how the system works.

You have all of the people who kill themselves puncturing a gasoline pipeline, not aware that they could steal a saddle tap, install it, and keep supplying themselves with free gasoline for months without spilling out hundreds of gallons and creating an explosive environment.

The problem isn’t the mass, it’s the specialists. Mass arrests of worker bees is a waste of time and money, which is why military action doesn’t work. Military action can deal with the mass, but it can’t target the specialists, the people who train the mass.

You don’t want the people who attend terrorist training camps, you want the people who teach there. You have to follow the evidence back to the core people and neutralize them. Having thousands of people who don’t know anything useful or dangerous in confinement gives terrorists the opportunity to train them. Just as prisons are schools for criminals, internment camps are schools for terrorists.

It sounds like you could build something with a heat gun to produce the powdered stuff, or a liquid gas for freeze drying. There are a lot of options if you understand the life cycle and limits of whatever piece of nastiness you are working with and have some tools in your garage.

As with nuclear weapons, the hard part is getting the core material. If you can obtain that, the rest is finding out what works.

and do post photos if you find them.

security for oil pipelines — that would solve our un/underemployment problems.

I have a photo of a 1″ diameter titanium bolt that was used to hold together a huge pump designed for oil rigs (amongst other things), that had been half melted. Amazing what super-heated acid can do! 🙂 Hmmm… Now I’ll have to find that photo and scan it and post it! Wonder which box it is in… *shrug* I have to sort them all out one of these days anyway. 🙂

Most of those things I learned in counter-terrorism training in the 80’s. We had to learn to think like a terrorist (the real ones, not the Bushworld ones) so we could do something about them. *Takes one to know one!* 😉 LOL We (Aus) always thought that oil rigs would make perfect targets for terrorists. I spent over a year studying security for rigs, refineries, pipelines, etc in various parts of the Mid-East (officially, I was a *consultant* for Aramco with a couple others). We concluded that without an army the size of China… it was virtually impossible to secure it all (As the US is discovering belatedly in Afghanistan and Iraq). However, we could minimize the consequences of an attack on some part of it, and the pumps were seen to be a major target. Fairly easy to destroy, very difficult to quickly replace, and very expensive.

Fact is, it’s relatively easy for a terrorist organization to wreak havoc if they choose. The reasons they don’t often are many and complex. 🙂

i have a very trustworthy face. 🙂 besides, i like little old ladies.

my favorite part of advanced p-chem lab was designing and making our own instruments [they didn’t teach us to shatter titanium bolts though, darn it, now i’m jealous]. i was majoring in physical chemistry [and my best friend was majoring in chemical physics over in the physics dept, we were in nearly identical programs, but whoever heard of chemists and physicists actually getting along together?] when i visited one of my old work-study employers one day, and they told me i had i job waiting for me in their lab if i’d change to biochemistry. sounded like a winner to me, so i did. and now i [apaprently] know how to weaponize anthrax! cool!

I am told that most American men fear an intelligent woman.

i’ve always been told that too. but even in this benighted corner of the world, i’ve discovered that the men who like intelligent women more than make up for the fearful ones. so i kinda get to have it both ways. not a bad deal, i’m thinking. 😉

So… I’m bad… sue me. 😉 LOL

Heh… to get serious for a moment… I don’t doubt for a second you are right. 🙂 When the Bushmorons started all the fearmongering about nuclear clouds over the horizon… I was asking a very dear friend, who has a PhD in Nuclear Physics from Oxford in the 60’s, and he laughed and said that anyone who has studied physics and especially nuclear physics before the 80’s (and there are many) could easy make it work. Because, he said, unlike physicists today, those had to know how to make the tools to make the tools to make the parts… because they couldn’t just order equipment from a catalog, or online, it didn’t exist! Because of his work for his PhD and after, he was also made a Fellow if the Institute of Engineers (in several countries) as were many others. 🙂

I know it was the same in my chosen field’s (industrial Design & Electronics Engineering) and am certain it was the same in any field of Chemistry. So I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there were many who could produce a militarized bug like anthrax (given time and money and some basic resources). I had to learn how to make things go *BANG* without access to an armory, and we had to learn how to procure or make other useful (in certain situations) items, including various useful, if nasty, chemicals etc! EG, I was taught how to make a titanium bolt melt or become fragile enough to shatter. And I know there were many trained as I was. 🙂 I am sure Bryan can also add to that.

Hey, I always wanted to ask… Don’t little old ladies these days scream for the cop’s when someone tries to help them cross a street? Maybe they know something. 😉 LOL

it’s true that lyophilizing bacteria mkes them clump together when dried [spray-drying seems to be the preferred method these days, lots less clumping] but that’s not an insurmountable problem. i’m pretty sure i could overcome it reasonably well [not perfectly] in a few hours, possibly a few days, given the run of even a halfway decently equipped lab.

oh, and i also help little old ladies cross the street. fear me. 😈

Ivins was pushing that meme, and the strain was the same one Reagan gave to Saddam, so it was a valid path of investigation. Just because someone is crazy, it doesn’t mean they are stupid. Ivins was, by all accounts, an excellent researcher, and added to what we know about anthrax. As the acknowledged expert in the field, he was able to manipulate the investigation.

Bruce Ivins-Anthrax Scientist/FBI Story is a joke. Investigation needed of the FBI

Yeah… What I want to know is… was it simply incompetence on the FBI’s part (believable these days), or orders from on high (also believable), or both (ditto)? As john says, it smells really, really bad.