Comments on: They Are Pirates

By: Badtux

Badtux — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:31:31 +0000

Kryten, it’s not about what I “recommend”, it’s what the political situation faced by Turkish politicians is going to force them to do. People are angry and upset and are demanding that their politicians do something. Nobody in the Turkish government is insane so they don’t want a war with Israel, but Turkey is a democracy for better or for worse and can’t simply ignore the public sentiment, thus why I am betting on the symbolic flotilla (with Israel quietly asked, behind the scenes, to approve the contents of the cargo holds before the flotilla leaves Turkey). That way they demonstrate their “resolve” to their constituents without actually doing anything, if you get my drift, since the supplies carried would be supplies that the Israelis were going to let the Palestinians have anyhow.

Will Israel go along with this idea? Uhm… it would be the sane thing to do, but sanity seems to be in preciously small supply in the nation at the moment. Siiiiigh! But from the way the Turks are talking, they’re sending their flotilla escorted by Turkish Navy ships anyhow whether Israel approves or not, so if Israel behaves in the insane manner that it has behaved as of late… oh my.

By: Kryten42

Kryten42 — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 09:04:33 +0000

Here's a couple more items: Palestine and the International Criminal Court The US-Israel Standoff over Settlements It's interesting to me that the authors of these articles are all British. I've yet to see anything remotely similar from an American (with the exception of some bloggers, I'm talking about from the MSM or Politicians).

By: Kryten42

Kryten42 — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 08:18:10 +0000

Yes, I have to agree with you on all points Badtux (there’s a shock!) 😉 😛
Of course, Israel are insane, so if Turkey does do what you suggest… all bet’s are off!

I was looking for a well thought out legal treatise (or at least, a legitimate argument based on International Law, and UN Charters) about the whole Gaza (and by extension, Israel/Palestine) problem the past few years. I came acros this:

Gaza: Not a War of Self-Defense

It’s a USA based op-ed and legal-news forum called ‘JURIST’ for opinions from Professor’s of Law and guest columnists.

JURIST Guest Columnist Victor Kattan of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, says that Israel’s Gaza offensive cannot be legally justified by any right of self-defense and instead constitutes aggression and a forcible deprivation of the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination…

He makes what I believe are some valid and legitimate points.

By: Badtux

Badtux — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 07:40:58 +0000

Ouch.

My bet is that the Turks settle for a single symbolic flotilla escorted by Turkish military vessels with nearby air cover available, and sail it to Gaza, and if the Israelis are sensible they will let the Turks do their little bit of political kabuki theater and sail home and then re-impose their blockade again in a little less ham-handed manner as the Turkish politicians strut and prance about how manly they were in standing up to the mean Israelis but otherwise take no real action against Israel (and quietly crack down on any further flotilla attempts from Turkey because of course they don’t *want* to have to take real action against Israel, only a madman wants a war with a nuclear state).

Of course, at this point, expecting the Israelis to do what’s sensible is like expecting a madman in an institute for the criminally insane to do what’s sensible… their recent history shows no penchant for doing anything of the sort. These assholes are just insane enough to attack Turkish military vessels on the high seas, at which point all hell breaks loose and we get the blockade scenario that I mention above.

By: Kryten42

Kryten42 — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 06:33:05 +0000

BTW, again… 😉

I don’t know if this is just posturing, but taken at face value, it seems Turkey is pissed and has had enough.

WSJ: Turkey Demands Punishment for Israel

Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday demanded Israel be punished for its “bloody massacre” of aid activists, in an uncompromising speech to parliament that appeared to widen the rift between the two countries.

“We are sick of your lies,” Mr. Erdogan said of Israel. “Today is a turning point in history. Nothing will be the same again.”

Mr. Erdogan’s speech, interrupted repeatedly by stormy applause, underlined how dramatically Turkey’s foreign policy and its place in the international community have changed in recent years, turning Israel’s once closest regional ally into one of its opponents. “No one should test Turkey’s patience,” Mr. Erdogan said, calling on Israel to end its blockade of the Gaza strip. “Turkey’s hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable.”

Turkish military air ambulances left Tuesday to ferry home from Israel some of the wounded and other activists who were on board the Mavi Marmara, a ship headed to the blockaded Gaza Strip, when Israeli commandoes stormed the ship early Monday morning. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization member’s foreign ministry confirmed four Turkish citizens dead and 15 wounded in the Israeli raid, though more of the dead may prove to be Turkish.

Turkey’s national television networks offered saturation coverage of the events Tuesday, switching from Mr. Erdogan’s impassioned denunciation of Israel to the tales of the returning activists.

And, most telling:

Turkey’s alliance with Israel was largely driven by the country’s military, which in the mid-1990s was in search of military hardware and intelligence to pursue its war against Kurdish insurgents in Eastern Turkey. Military-to-military contacts, arms deals and joint training programs have formed the bedrock of the relationship since.

But the deaths of Turkish civilians have united this deeply divided nation for the moment, and the military—which has been engaged in a fierce power struggle with Mr. Erdogan’s government—has been quiet, giving no sign of unhappiness with the prime minister’s tough response.

I do suspect that both Israel and the USA are about to get their comeuppance! At least… I can but hope so. *shrug*

By: Kryten42

Kryten42 — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 06:23:34 +0000

BTW… for anyone offended, boo-hoo… to bad. For far too long now has the State of Israel and those who support it and vote these criminals in time and again, have been given an easy out with zero accountability. Usually by those same people who decry what was done to the Jews over 60 years ago. Certainly there are many Jews who do not condone what their Father State is doing, often in their name, but they don’t seem to be to keen on doing anything about it. All they do by their silence is legitimize what their State is doing, and by extension, what was done to them.

And so… once again, history repeats. Same argument, different actors. I’ve heard, and seen with my own eyes, the same thing before.

the past decade has proven to me that the entire World is insane. I’m glad that I personally won’t have to put up with it for too much longer.

By: Kryten42

Kryten42 — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 05:22:53 +0000

Yeah, I understand all that. (And I know what ‘on the pad means’, I watched all the US Cop shows in the 80’s!) 😛 😉 Here, we normally say ‘on the take’.

You know my background, so you should understand when I say that as far as I (and those who served with me) think, the Israel Likud is little different from the Democratic Kampuchea (Khmer Rouge) of the 70’s. Other than that they have Nukes, and they also keep many of the US nasty WMD’s the USA would rather the World didn’t find out about. That’s one reason the US politicians are sh*t scared of Israel, then you have groups like AIPAC. Plus, they pretty much control most official US media one way or another and the so-called ‘think tanks’. *shrug* What can be expected? Goering and Goebbels would be proud, just before they gassed them for being Jews! 😈

Maybe it’s like… battered Jew syndrome? 😛 (And yes, I do know that not all Jews are as insane as their leaders, but then again… they keep voting them in. Just like recent US history.)

By: Bryan

Bryan — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 05:03:31 +0000

Kryten, I have never received a satisfactory explanation for the unreasoned support for Israel. The support among elected officials is stronger and more consistent than the support among American Jews.

I can only assume that politicians are afraid of being called anti-Semitic by a few conservative Jewish organizations, or are on the pad [police slang for taking bribes] of those groups.

Israel has not been a reliable ally, and we keep having to arrest their spies in the US government.

Israel doesn’t honor its agreements, and doesn’t bargain in good faith. It is in the political interests of the Likud Party that the nation of Israel never feel secure.

I predict that within a short time the government of Israel will hold a press conference and display various weapons manufactured in Iran that it claims to have found on the ships it attacked. It always finds them, the way certain cops always find drugs.

By: Kryten42

Kryten42 — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 04:24:53 +0000

If I use this WSJ poll as a guide, it’s certain the USA will do nothing, as usual.

Q: What should happen to Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza?

It should remain: 66.4% (1472 votes)
It should end: 22.9% (508 votes)
It should be eased to allow aid shipments: 10.7% (237 votes)

That’s pretty much what I expected to see.

What should happen to Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza?

There are a few with an opposing view. This by an ex-Marine who writes for Salem News and sums it up nicely.

Israel Attacks Unarmed Americans in International Waters

The Obama Administration has blocked all attempts to bring Israel to justice over it, making the U.S. complicit tonight in the possible murder of its own citizens.

They are citizens who in the bigger picture, stand heads and shoulders above the willfully ignorant politicians and citizens who endorse this butchery of human beings by the Jewish state.

These are doctors risking their lives to help people made to live in utterly reprehensible, deadly conditions by Israel.

The Israeli government very much resembles an organized crime syndicate when viewed in context with past deeds. Now it is time for the world to put its foot down.

Support of Israel’s genocidal regime will be the ultimate downfall of the United States, and any nation that supports genocide deserves what it gets.

I may not entirely agree with his style although, he is a journalist, but I do agree with his sentiments.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 04:11:38 +0000

In reply to Kryten42. Actually, I can't think of a single tactical reason for boarding that vessel on the seas. It would have been easier and safer to direct it to port. No master of a passenger vessel is going to endanger those passengers by refusing to comply with a warship. The entire operation was stupid.