The only good way to find out what happened was to look at the original sources. I have more confidence in the letters and journals preserved within my extended family about conditions in upstate New York in the late 18th and early 19th century, than any of the books written on the period. Even the gossip is interesting, and people tended to tell the truth because they know that others who know the truth will be reading what they write. If you want a tough editorial board gather a group of great aunts, because they are unmerciful.

The problem in Florida seems to have been that the people pushed for secession were the planters from what is now the citrus/cattle region, but the ‘volunteers’ were from the Panhandle, mostly loggers. The planters couldn’t ‘spare’ anybody to fight, only to start the fight, and they were exempt from the draft. The Pensacola Navy Yard was taken, but Fort Pickens remained in Federal hands, so Pensacola Bay was blockaded by the cannon at the fort. The Florida regiment spent the war as part of the Army of Tennessee, but that one under-strength regiment was made up of men with dozens of kids, based on the number of people who claim to be descendents. 😉

I remember the country as I drove it when I was in the Air Force, and things were solid and well maintained. When Reagan came in and started cutting out preventive maintenance to hide his deficits I knew things were going to fall apart, and they obviously are. Hurricanes keep my patch in better order than most, because of the repairs and reconstruction after the storms, but things are still going down hill.

This wasn’t necessary, and it certainly isn’t good for the country.

Another amusing thing to see was just how poorly educated the “gentleman planters” really were. There was significant churn in plantation ownership. The primary cause? Innumeracy on the part of the planter class. They simply couldn’t add and subtract, they lost track of how much money they had coming in and going out and ended up getting everything repo’ed and sold off by the factors! And the illiteracy of their letters was astounding. Compared to the letters we read from the Union soldiers back to their families in Indiana or Illinois, it was like we were reading the letters of second or third grade schoolkids, the general low level of grammar, spelling, and sentence construction were astounding. Yet these were the same people holding themselves up as superior to the “plebian industrialists” of the North!

Especially amusing was comparing this actual source data to the mythology propagated by the fine doyennes of the Daughters of the Confederacy. Talk about getting a fine lesson in how propagandists can re-write history! It’s clear where the Republican Party of today gets the balls to say things like, say, “Obama is evil because his TARP program bailed out the banks” (uhm, TARP was Gee Dubya’s bailout). The Party of the Confederacy has so many decades of re-writing history for their own propaganda purposes under their belt that they do it reflexively, in much the same way you and I breathe.

Regarding infrastructure, I’ve watched this country going down for the past thirty years. I’m baffled as to how other people don’t notice that their country is slowly sliding backwards into being a third world hellhole. I guess because the slide is slow, and the Chinese trinkets were a good thing, but now it’s getting to the point where 3rd world serfdom is the fate of significant numbers of Americans and… are people going to notice, *now*? And if they do, will they blame the Republican policies that did this to our nation, or will the Party of the Confederacy once again successfully re-write history to make it libruls, soshalists, and commies that dunnit? Not feeling optimistic there… :(.

– Badtux the 3rd World Penguin

The industrial production are from the Census figures, college level courses.

Joe Johnston and Uncle Billy Sherman were the best generals in the conflict, and they respected each other. Neither was perfect, but they were better than anyone else on either side. They understood from the beginning that it was going to be a long war, and didn’t waste people.

The food problem was really unbelievable. The plantation owners continued to grow cash crops that they couldn’t ship, and the small farmers who were the major food producers were in the army, instead of on the farm.

If you want to read really nasty editorials, look up what was printed about Jeff Davis in Southern newspapers during the war. He definitely was not beloved in the South during his lifetime. He didn’t become ‘popular’ until the history was edited in the 20th century.

Yes, we are having another go at the stupidity, but it is hard to make the point with so many people rewriting history.

You have a point, that we are following Russia to oblivion. They are getting there quicker because they had less infrastructure to begin with.

So in any event, yes, the South was completely outmatched industrially by the North, but that actually wasn’t as critically important as your grade school history books in New York actually implied. Misuse of the South’s limited manpower, failure to use the South’s fertile soil to grow food crops to feed the South’s soldiers and general populace, and failure to understand the importance of the interior railroads and the importance of keeping them maintained (most of Tredegar’s trained machinists got drafted! Talk about a misallocation of manpower!). Combined with mediocre generalship and a delusional President who was convinced that the North would give up swiftly and thus it wasn’t necessary to think about things like, say, maintaining the rail network, because those could be repaired after the North gave up… well. Today’s Republicans sure remind me a lot of the Confederate political leadership — delusional, living in their own bubble, supremely convinced of their own superiority, but in actuality being a collection of bumbling incompetents and lunatics. (This doesn’t describe *all* Confederate leaders — I think Joe Johnston was probably a fairly good general, he understood maneuver warfare and Sherman was quite relieved when Johnston was removed in favor of Hood — but you’ll notice that Johnston got *fired* for being sane). But in any event. you put insane leaders in charge of a run-down infrastructure and what you get is disaster.

Hmm…. say, does anybody notice some similarities between that situation, and a *current* nation with run-down infrastructure and insane leaders?

Back to Russia… oh wait. Now that I think about it, your description of how things work in Russia is starting to become increasingly descriptive of how things work *here*. Funny how that works, hmm??

– Badtux the Not-crazy-incompetent-or-corrupt Penguin

When the South lost control of its main rivers and Gulf ports, it was only a matter of time. When we came down to Florida in the 1950s, there still wasn’t a reasonable road system in place.

Russia is really nice to foreign investors until things get to point where they are profitable, then on of the ‘chosen’ takes the Russian side of the business, and then the foreign side a bit later. The initial people you deal with really are entrepreneurs who will act in good faith, but they will robbed just like the foreigners. They may not have the pomp of the Russian Empire, but the Russian government has the corruption down pat.

I ran into them in San Diego, and now they are down here.

Anyway, as I said, we’ll see what happens. I know a couple of the Aussies who went to Siberia, and they are far from fools or stupid. But I wouldn’t hold my breath either. *shrug* I’ve dealt with Russians (and Soviets, and especially *officials*) a lot in the past. I have no illusions.

The logistics situation was far more dire. As you say, gentlemen didn’t do logistics.

Note that Florida was largely wilderness at the start of the Civil War, with a total free white population of 80,000 at the outbreak of war. It’s not surprising that Florida had trouble raising military units.

Yes, many of Russia’s best are leaving. I know, because I work with them (and get the news from their homeland) here in the Silly Cone Valley :).

– Badtux the Observant Penguin

I’m looking at the 1860 Census figures from the University of Virgina library and they indicate a shortage of manufacturing capacity. They had the weapons provided by the Federal government for the state militias at the start of the war, but the entire state of Florida was only able to equip and field a single regiment the entire war, and the Federal blockade was effective.

Logistics was not considered anything ‘a gentleman’ would be interested in, but it was the key to every campaign that Sherman fought.

Yep, Russia is immensely wealthy, but it is rotting from the inside. Everyone who can, leaves, including some of their very best people.

Regarding Russia, I think the majority of the Russian oligarchs don’t see any future for the country or for their own position within the country as Putin slowly tightens his control, so they’re just looting whatever they can loot and trying to get it outside of Putin’s reach as fast as possible. Putin’s own cronies aren’t much better, Putin allows their corruption because it gives him a handle to hold over them — all of them are corrupt, so if any of them step out of line and decide to go freelance, Putin can quickly make sure they get a nice long stay in the graybar hotel. Putin is allegedly now the richest man in Europe but my guess is that this is more a case of money and power being synonymous in today’s world and Putin being very, very interested in power. Sort of a kinder gentler Stalin. For definitions of “kinder gentler” that anywhere but in Russia would be synonymous with “brutal tyrant” ;).

– Badtux the Geopolitics Penguin

The problem of having the military based primarily in the South is that the soldiers react with the good old boys on a daily basis and have had to put up with them. They may want to think about payback time for the antics of local law enforcement.

Yep, the South had a lot of generals, but it needed people and weapons, and it didn’t have enough of either. It would have also helped if they were food independent, but they weren’t as the best land was used for cash crops. Food and ordnance are important for an army.

Russia is its own worst enemy, with a shrinking population, reduced life span, and rampant corruption. They have gone back to the old nobility/serf system and don’t understand the need for a middle class. They want to recreate something that never existed – the golden age of the Tsars. The foreigners will learn, but it will be an expensive lesson.

I suspect that at some point the Chinese will decide to solve a lot of their problems by moving North.