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Comments on: They Really Want A War https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/ On-line Opinion Magazine...OK, it's a blog Fri, 22 Aug 2014 00:47:45 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.3 By: Bryan https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69423 Fri, 22 Aug 2014 00:47:45 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69423 Since the Missouri Compromise they have been on the front line of the racial divide. I would guess that small police departments, the State Troopers, and the National Guard in Missouri are made up of people from the rural areas of the state, which is a fairly common pattern throughout the US. Country people have a hard time fitting into the metropolitan environment, and the rules of communication and interaction are vastly different. They don’t understand the people, so they don’t understand the problem.

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By: Steve Bates https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69410 Thu, 21 Aug 2014 13:57:01 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69410 Well, the “roll” emoticon doesn’t look much like rolling eyes to me, but rolling eyes were my intent…

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By: Steve Bates https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69409 Thu, 21 Aug 2014 13:44:56 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69409 The Ferguson police (and the Highway Police, and now the National Guard; where will it end?) did the whole state of Missouri no favor: to this point, I never thought of MO as “old South,” but after this series of utterly avoidable confrontations over a completely indefensible action by an officer, I certainly will think of it that way. No matter how “virtuous” (yeah, right) they think their position is, they need to start thinking through likely consequences of their actions before they take them. 🙄

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By: Badtux https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69295 Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:24:48 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69295 I’ve read some of the articles on Mo’ne and seen a couple of the interviews. She reminds me of one particularly articulate little girl I had in one of my classes, who was similarly self-possessed for someone her age. Great kid. Well grounded. She seems slightly amused by the furor around her, not particularly impressed nor insulted by any of it.

As for Governor Nixon, he’s a conservative Democrat so has his own ideological blind spots the size of a freight train. But yes, he does seem to be wanting to do the right thing. It’s just that, in Missouri, doing the right thing seems pretty much impossible, leaving only doing the least wrong thing as a possibility. (And someone in the National Guard pretty much tells you what their own mentality is, using the N-word outright and blatant to a member of the press).

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By: Bryan https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69289 Wed, 20 Aug 2014 04:55:00 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69289 We were posting at the same time, Kryten.

Nixon is caught between a rock and a hard place, and seems to be at least trying to do something right, but he is getting his information from local officials who have been less than truthful so far.

If state officials are giving the Guard their orders, there is a chance they won’t be a bigger problem, but if the locals have control all bets are off.

The only way there is going to be a prosecution of any kind is if there is prosecutor willing to try the case, and I wouldn’t bet on that. Then you have the problem of finding a venue for any trial, and that will be a major problem given the publicity surrounding the case.

Badtux did a nice piece on Mo’ne. A Sports Illustrated cover will certainly be a good filler for her college applications and make the people in her neighborhood proud.

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By: Bryan https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69283 Wed, 20 Aug 2014 04:34:23 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69283 In reply to Badtux.

They certainly aren’t helping themselves by ‘detaining’ journalists along with all of their other stupidities that has reached the point that Amnesty International has sent a team to monitor the situation at Ferguson. Of course, Iran, China, and Russian are using the situation to attack the US complaints about human rights violations in other countries, and the Europeans won’t be too far behind with the harassment of European journalists.

The National Guard might be an improvement if they aren’t taking their orders from local officials. The local officials who do pay the police have been very obviously missing from reports. No one seems willing to admit that this started by police conduct, and exploded for the same reason. The local police are the problem.

You absolutely identify the trouble makers. That is basic to riot control. Whenever possible you should publicly identify people you recognize by name, to break the anonymity of the mob, and you control the groups, you don’t compress them. You leave open an outlet to avoid panic.

The local police don’t know the local Black leaders, they don’t know much of anything about the 70% of their jurisdiction that isn’t white, so there is no connection they can use. They are an outside occupying army for all intents and purposes.

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By: Kryten42 https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69279 Wed, 20 Aug 2014 04:12:17 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69279 It’s all wrong. Nixon is a complete moron and totally out of touch with reality, but is quite typical of the US right.

Here’s the latest stupidity, from Mashable:
Missouri Governor Calls for ‘Vigorous Prosecution’ in Michael Brown’s Death

And this:
Missouri National Guard Has Its Own History of Racial Tension

*shrug*

But, here is something truly wonderful! And will really piss off the likes of bigoted assholes that fill the USA. 😀

Little League Star Mo’ne Davis Hits Sports Illustrated’s Cover

What an amazing young lady! And she even put the media on notice! LOL Love her. 😉 😀

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By: Badtux https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69278 Wed, 20 Aug 2014 03:34:25 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69278 One of the first things we learned as teachers about how to control a class of unruly students was to identify the troublemakers / ringleaders and single them and only them out for discipline. Punishing the whole class wasn’t going to result in the desired result, even if the ringleaders had managed to organize most of the class as their henchmen due to the class having run through a string of substitutes before they found a permanent teacher to teach the class. Punishing the entire class would just result in more acting out. You had to find the real troublemakers, and once you did that and sent them to the office a few times after which they got suspended, the rest of the class would fall in line as long as you were doing everything else right.

Not only are the Ferguson police not identifying the troublemakers / ringleaders and focusing their efforts on that small minority of people, not only are they punishing the good with the bad, but they’re doing nothing else right. They’re disorganized, they’re undisciplined, they don’t follow orders, they blatantly use racial language in front of national press, they treat everyone not in police uniform that they encounter as enemy combatants rather than citizens that they’re sworn to serve and protect, and they have managed the impossible of making the media view sympathetically a bunch of black people who’d otherwise be dismissed as looters and race-baiting whiners.

Frankly, at this point the National Guard is probably the best solution that the State of Missouri has. At least the National Guard has training and discipline. The local cops are just a disorganized mob whose lack of discipline and training means that even when there’s well-meaning leaders who know what it takes to control this kind of situation, they can’t get the local cops to do what they say to do. As a military organization, the members of the National Guard are accustomed to following orders and there are consequences if they do not. If a St. Louis County cop decides he isn’t going to follow the order of a State Police captain, what’s the State Police captain going to do? The State doesn’t pay the St. Louis cop’s salary and has no power to fire him, after all… whereas a National Guardsman who fails to follow orders faces court martial and imprisonment.

We’re now at the point where there are no good options. When the National Guard is the least bad option, you know things are FUBAR.

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By: Bryan https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69256 Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:25:18 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69256 Fred is right, Jim, they are doing everything that is guaranteed to increase the temperature of the situation, and nothing to reduce the anger. They have looting because they have committed their resources to attempts to control the peaceful demonstrations and have nothing left to protect property from criminals, and the criminals can see that.

They are attacking journalists and people gathering to protest government actions. They only have religion left to have violated every provision of the First Amendment.

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By: Jim Bales https://whynow.dumka.us/2014/08/18/they-really-want-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-69251 Tue, 19 Aug 2014 16:24:54 +0000 http://whynow.dumka.us/?p=33692#comment-69251 Bryan,

You might appreciate the title of this post by Fred Clark, at his blog “Slacktivist”

Police again foiled in their quest for a bloodbath, will try again tonight

Link

Jim

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