Comments on: AFTK

By: Bryan

Bryan — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 03:51:56 +0000

If ‘you’re doing right’, you don’t use chip board for anything in the house. Most bathroom cabinets are laminated chip board and they rarely seal the hidden edges. The damn things ‘melt’ within two years. Before I’ll put one in I seal the raw edges with urethane which doubles the life of the cheap crap.

Cement board is the only backing to use for anything tiled in a kitchen or bathroom. I’ve seen tiles installed on sheet rock and it isn’t pretty. The new laminates use a better adhesive/resin in the construction that is much more water resistant than the earlier versions.

That said, the oak floors that were common in houses built a century ago in upstate New York are still going strong. The modern urethane finishes really protect them and they have a great look.

By: Badtux

Badtux — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 08:35:46 +0000

Oh yeah, the fact that the grout isn’t waterproof is why when you’re building tiled kitchen counters, you use concrete board rather than plywood for the underlay if you’re doing it right.

By: Badtux

Badtux — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 08:34:41 +0000

On a slab foundation I’d definitely go for tile. I have this “distressed” pattern tile in mind, it’s kind of brown speckled tile that isn’t slippery like most tile and doesn’t show dirt well. But it seems unlikely I’ll ever have a chance to do tile. If I move out into the redwoods like I’m planning, it’ll be on a grade with a wood subfloor and I’ll put down real hardwood floors if it doesn’t already have them. Real wood flooring doesn’t bubble up like the sawdust backing for the laminate flooring if someone spills a drink on it, and will outlast the typical lifespan of a human being with proper care and occasional refinishing every ten years or so.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Wed, 28 Jan 2015 01:58:11 +0000

In reply to hipparchia. The tile is but, unless it is properly sealed at regular intervals, the grout isn't.

By: hipparchia

hipparchia — Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:19:14 +0000

i was thinking “waterproof” …

By: Bryan

Bryan — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 01:47:18 +0000

I understand about the problem with concrete slabs and earthquakes. We tend to build more rigid structures here because of the hurricanes. Different designs for different conditions.

Carpet layers are paid more than laminate installers and their tools are more expensive. You need a bigger vehicle to haul carpet than laminate sections and the sections just snap together like Legos. A miter saw and rotary cutter are the most expensive tools needed. It doesn’t take much longer to install laminate than carpet.

Yes, Hipparchia, if you are looking for a permanent solution, then ceramic tile is the best choice for a slab floor. My Mother had it installed after she got tired of the expense of getting her carpet cleaned repeatedly.

By: hipparchia

hipparchia — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 00:38:14 +0000

re floors, all my acquaintances in houses on slabs have put in tile (or that painted concrete) recently… 😈

By: hipparchia

hipparchia — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 00:36:58 +0000

wow, that is cheap. my whole house, and probably the tiny yard too, could probably fit into a “large storage shed.” and would cost more too. even the apartment I moved from (when moving into this house, which was a bargain compared to the apt) cost more than that.

actually, there are houses like that here, but they’re way out in the boonies, so the driving, especially with the old gas guzzler and $4 gas at the time, would have negated any advantages from the lower rent.

By: Badtux

Badtux — Mon, 26 Jan 2015 07:34:59 +0000

We don’t have a lot of concrete slabs here in the Bay Area because they tend to turn into concrete crumbles in earthquakes. Pretty much all our houses are on heavily reinforced perimeter foundations with piers in the middle if on flatland and with grade beams if there’s a slope. That allows the wood-frame house tied to the top of the foundation to wobble at will in an earthquake, which, it has been found, allows the house to survive far better than more rigid structures. I’ve looked at new construction going up and they even have the wobble points built right into them, almost like the Transamerica Tower, which sits on a giant ball bearing and where if an earthquake hits you’ll get quite the ride at the top (which is predicted to wobble 1-2 feet back and forth in time with the quake waves when the Big One hits).

Labor is *very* expensive here. According to the BLS laminate flooring installers get $25/hour here and carpet installers get $20/hour here. Figure it takes 5x more hours to install laminate flooring than carpet (probably an understatement), and a 2 hour carpet job has $40 worth of labor, versus a 10 hour laminate job that has $250 worth of labor. And the tenant is likely going to destroy it over the course of the next three years, so $1.25 /square foot for cheap laminate versus 99c/square foot for a cheap apartment grade carpet plus pad adds up over time.

We don’t have flea or other insect problems here due to the humidity being so low during the summer so that’s not an issue.

That said, I wish laminate *was* cheaper here. It’s easier to clean up after the cats barf on it (toss some kitty litter on the barf, wait a while, sweep it up), and definitely better for my allergies. Alas, it doesn’t seem to be — landlords invariably put down this crappy apartment grade carpet everywhere that doesn’t have tile or vinyl. I’m sort of lucky in this duplex that the hallway and office are laminate, most don’t even have that.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Sun, 25 Jan 2015 04:42:16 +0000

Labor is very cheap and the new laminates are much more water resistant. I was concerned about the scratching, but that hasn’t been a problem. One of the problems with carpets down here are insect infestations, especially fleas. Another big one is mold if the carpet gets wet, because the pad doesn’t dry out quick enough.

Flooring on a concrete slab is a lot different than on a wooden subfloor, so different materials react differently on the two dominate subfloors.