Politics In The Ukraine

by Bryan

10 comments

1 shirt { 02.27.14 at 2:20 pm }

The Ukraine is a Euro problem. The only aid the US should extend is humanitarian. The Ukrainian people could get a lot of attention from Europe if they blew up a few pipelines.

Europeans sit on their fracking asses way to much.

2 Bryan { 02.27.14 at 7:26 pm }

If the US gets involved in any way, it will backfire. Putin will use it as an excuse and justification for whatever he does. He’ll invoke the Cold War, and be right, because we have no national interests in the area.

Outside interference in internal problems rarely makes things better, and usually makes them worse.

3 Dizzy { 02.28.14 at 4:28 pm }

Obama just had to get his 2¢ in. You know, shake the finger at Putin and say something to the effect of “behave now”. My opinion is he would have been far better to keep his mouth shut and in the end not look so small.

I seriously doubt Putin is going to let this moment go by without an attempt to resecure the Ukraine for Russia. He’s trying to rebuild the Russian empire and he is not going to willingly let this chance pass by, unless I miss my guess.

4 Bryan { 02.28.14 at 8:00 pm }

So you know – no one around here likes Obama. Badtux beat me by a month identifying him as a Republican in 2007/2008. I refer to him as Zero because of his use of ‘O’ as part of 2O12 campaign materials. He tends to preach at foreign leaders, and his advisors tend to be more ideological that informed, which is why he irritates so many of them.

Putin will always do what is best for Vladimir Putin. Zero doesn’t understand that Putin gains popularity with his base when he tells the US to bugger off. Putin also controls one of the two major routes out of Afghanistan. so with Pakistan flaky, we need Putin to get our troops out of the country.

5 Dizzy { 02.28.14 at 9:04 pm }

You would think by now that some one from the military would already be telling Obama that there is this pass (Khyber) they just had a lot of trouble getting through because Pakistan was teed over the killing of their soldiers.

The US said they returned fire on incoming artillery but not being there leaves a lot of grey area for shall we say ‘interpretation’. Thanks to Obama’s on again off again good buddy, they were able to ship it in by rail from out of Russian territory.

As you say, Putin does what is good for Putin and he loves poking a stick at the US to increase hometown good will. (hey he needs all the help he can get) Everything from teaching the US and the UK that the airport isn’t local soil till they pass customs (which GCHQ can thank Putin for the reason on how they could get away with claiming terrorist on Miranda to find out what he was carrying in documents since the NSA couldn’t say).

I had to laugh at him saying that Obama could get away with spying on the populace, which he wished he could do. (Hey, it sold well in the papers and the media.)

6 Kryten42 { 03.01.14 at 12:33 am }

Agree Bryan & all.

shirt (above) reminded me of a letter I read a couple years ago, and it took me awhile to find it. It was a reply to an European regarding a letter that the author posted about Biotech foods and GMO’s. I’ll just post the reply. My own research shows that it is reasonably accurate (though it’s simplistic, there was also many other reasons not stated for US involvement and the delays in that involvement that I won’t go into at this time (some of which I have mentioned here before). The USA has rarely, if ever, done anything that didn’t include economic or political reasons.) Also, FYI the author is right-wing, but disagrees fervently with the Teeps and the extremists who he belies are destroying the “true conservative values”. *shrug*

Dear Mr. Jannsen:

“Arrogant” is often the word that comes to the American mind when we think of modern Europeans and your letter shows exactly why. So let’s get this straight, the reason your economies at their best resemble our recessions has nothing to do with your obscene tax rates and ridiculous labor laws but with U.S. imperialism. And it’s not enough that 116,000 Americans died on European soil to end one war that you people started, nor that over 400,000 died in another to end yet another war you started. No, it’s OUR fault our contribution to the war (which went far beyond men to include massive material supplies to both the Russians and British in WWII) was “belated,” meaning that we didn’t lose even more people bailing you out of problems you created. I thought Europeans were supposed to have a long sense of history, but yours is the length of a gnat’s so here’s a refresher on WWII alone.

Hitler began to build a huge army, air force, and navy in clear violation of the Treaty of Versailles. The rest of Europe, which could have crushed Germany like a bug in 1933, simply ignored it. Hitler occupied the Rhineland in 1936, again in clear violation of the Treaty, and he himself said he was terrified to know that France could easily have swatted the German troops like a mosquito. But France again did nothing. Britain and France then gave away the northern part of Czechoslovakia. Then despite a written treaty to come to Poland’s aid if she were attacked, did nothing when the German troops rolled into that country. The next year Germany invaded France, a country with approximately the same population as its own. Notwithstanding this, notwithstanding that the French had the element of being behind massive defense barriers, and notwithstanding that it had the aid of both Britain and Belgium, France crumpled like a dried-up flower. It then turned traitor, joining the Axis. Answer me this Genius Jannsen, when U.S. soldiers launched their first European invasion of the war to go after Rommel in North Africa, who were the first Europeans to kill them? It was the French.

So why were we not surprised to find that the French who fought so hard against our liberating the people of Iraq had been violating the UN embargo by sending them parts to maintain their F-Mirages? And yet bizarrely, you still hear Americans say we shouldn’t be mad at the French because they helped us way back in 1779-81. No, the French never do anything that isn’t strictly for the French. They weren’t out to help a fledgling democracy; they saw a way to strike at their enemies the British and it worked.

Is this what you’re so darned proud of Mr. Jannsen? Half a million dead Americans killed by wars your people started? God help you.

7 Bryan { 03.01.14 at 7:35 pm }

After the mess of WWI most countries learned to only get involved when their national interests were at stake. Going around interfering in other people’s wars will always generate backlash.

Russians aren’t going to forget what the French did in 1812, nor what the Germans did in World War II, any more than the Ukrainians are going forget what the Soviets did, so there is a lot of old hate involved in this problem.

The problem with the US government is that many of the people in important positions can’t remember what happened last Wednesday, must less 200 years ago, so they don’t understand why countries act the way they do.

8 Dizzy { 03.01.14 at 11:16 pm }

The problem with the US government is that many of the people in important positions can’t remember what happened last Wednesday, must less 200 years ago, so they don’t understand why countries act the way they do.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

9 Badtux { 03.02.14 at 12:26 pm }

Looks like the Russians just took over the Crimea using the troops they already had there on their bases, which is one option I suppose for making sure the Black Sea Fleet doesn’t have to leave for a new base. But they did it sneaky. As you’d expect, given that Putin is ex-KGB.

Not seeing that Ukraine’s new government has many good options here. They can send their own troops into Crimea, but to do so risks outright war with Russia if they fire on Russian troops, which they’ll have to do in order to do so. A while back I seem to recall mentioning that Russia could use the Ossetian solution to their basing rights in Crimea. Seems like I might have been on to something there. I wonder why the Obamiacs didn’t recall that, like, only four years ago Russia did the exact same thing with Georgia and Ossetia? Oh right, the only Georgia anybody in the Obama administrator knows about is peanuts and cotton.

10 Bryan { 03.02.14 at 5:21 pm }

The Crimea isn’t, and has never been Russian or Ukrainian, the major indigenous population are the Tatars, but there aren’t many of them left. Russians are the vast majority of the population as it was a military district for the Baltic Fleet. Khrushchev moved the Crimean Autonomous Region to the control of the Ukrainian SSR from the Russian SFSR for no particularly good reason, like a lot of things the Nikita did. There are no long historical ties with either Russia or Ukraine, and it has no great significance as anything other than a naval base.

If the Ukrainians decided to join NATO, the status of that base would be in question and both Russian and Soviet strategic thinking would definitely oppose that. If the Ukrainians actually considered it important, they would have had forces in the area, but they didn’t. The local population backs Russia, so any attempt to re-take it would be an extended, expensive mess with no real point – another cavalry charge on Balaklava.

We can only hope that Senator Turtleneck doesn’t decide to follow the lead of Lord Cardigan.