Manipulated Delusions
Every time people want to do something they know is totally, absolutely wrong, but they still want to do it, they create myths to justify their behavior. This is how they avoid taking moral responsibility for their blatantly immoral actions.
In the United States the myth was generally called Manifest Destiny. You see, when the United States was stealing land from the people who already lived there, it was fulfilling its preordained destiny.
John L. Sullivan wrote an essay supporting this view in 1839, but people may be more comfortable with this middle school version that most encountered in one form or another in a public school, although there was no tone of disapproval when it was taught to me in the 1950s.
The Wikipedia article on Manifest Destiny looks at the concept in a wider context, as a standard myth among colonizers. They convince themselves that they aren’t pillaging to gain, which would be wrong, they are going to help the indigenous peoples reach their full potential, i.e. instead of just stealing all their land, the current inhabitants are also going to be indoctrinated into a new religion.
The delusion allows people to convince people, themselves most of all, that if the poor ignorant savages just understood, they would welcome those who were robbing and murdering them as liberators. Obviously those that didn’t understand they were being liberated had to be killed so that the majority could receive the benefits from being robbed and murdered freed from oppressive ignorance.
The Israeli Peace Bloc understands the connection and discusses the progress of this delusion in Israeli society.
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This is how colonialism works. In order to justify the taking of land and rights, the colonial powers create justifications for their actions, often making their actions seem either holly or right. You are correct – it is a delusion that only knowledge and people speaking out can begin to change.
Here in Santa Barbara, just ask the Chumash about the Conquistadors.
And, now, when the Chumash are rolling in the dough with their casino and entertainment venue, boy, are the “white folks” in the county pissed that “their” county is being degraded with “gambling.”
“…if there is a people anywhere less burdened with sloppy, and/or soppy, thinking, it is the Jews…”
Excuse me?
Welcome to the area, IPA. It was so honest before religion got involved – people took what others had because they could, and they didn’t try to sugar coat it. If I were a god I would be pretty annoyed at getting blamed for the thefts.
Florida was a Spanish colony as well, Jill, although, Andy Jackson is the most cited example locally.
I see you are still making full use of your Encyclopaedia of Mythistory for opinions, DD. The European powers took the land and gave it to the Israelis initially, Britain was in charge of the transaction and then passed the problem on to the newly formed United Nations. The Israelis went into the full scale business of theft with the 1967 war. All of its recent problems are the result of refusing to surrender what it stole in 1967.
The attack on Lebanon was badly planned and executed, and so is this assault on Palestinian children. They must be attacking children because they are the largest group of the dead, and the Israelis are apparently so competent in your world.
You see, I think they went off half-cocked for political advantage in the coming parliamentary elections to look tough for the voters, with the leaders of the various parties trying to convince people how strong they were in dealing with the Palestinians. And I think that without a clear plan and solid ground intelligence they have made a series of disastrous targeting decisions that have resulted in unacceptable civilian losses that have hurt the country in world opinion and will only strengthen the support of Hamas.
But you are quite free to think that the Israelis intended to kill over 270 children because they are so competent and clear minded.
Of course they still haven’t explained the mechanism by which their actions will stop the attacks on Israel, when history shows that such actions always cause an increase in terrorist recruits.
Fallenmonk and I are both former NSA, and are trained to look at the real world, not the myths people create to make themselves feel better.
“[S]loppy, and/or soppy, thinking”? ” “[W]oolly thinking emanating from the site of my e-pal, ‘Fallen Monk’ and his commenters”?
Good grief, David. Can’t you go anywhere without insulting your hosts and their friends, in their own homes and elsewhere? No one could possibly have been more gracious to you and tolerant of you than Fallenmonk has, and this is the thanks he gets from you?
David, what would your mother think?
Steve Bates´s last blog post..All My Holdings, Merged
competent and clear minded
Oh jeez! I almost choked on my coffee! LOL That like saying the Bushmoron is competent and clear minded! LOL He epitomizes the Israeli leadership. No wonder he loves them so much, they have much in common!
Agree Bryan, as I said in recent comments about all this. 🙂
The only thing the Israeli’s are competent in these days, is their paranoid delusions.
Some people obviously have strange ideas and need to get out more to see how the *Real World* actually works. I’d recommend Gaza this time of the year David. It’d be perfect for you to see first hand the competence of the Israeli’s. 🙂 You never know, you might even survive to tell about it. 🙂
Well, everyone’s entitled to their own fantasy world, as long as voters don’t elect them to high office and allow them to make public policy based on it.
Steve, you are aware that for some reason strays are attracted to my place.
Kryten, we’re prejudiced because we live in former colonies and are still dealing with the problems that were caused by this attitude. It is rather hard to miss it when it surrounds you.
True Bryan. And I am not at all pleased about the way Australia was *colonized* (though to be fair to most Australians decedents of the first *colonists*, their forefathers were mostly prisoners and slaves of the British Colonials, and all of the initial massacres of the indigenous people were carried out by the British soldiers and the British Aristocracy. We just have to pay the price. At least Rudd bowed to public pressure and began by issuing the public apology to the indigenous people that Howard steadfastly refused to give. 🙂
It’s not a lot, but it is a start. At least we, as a people, acknowledge what was done in our name by our forefathers. and we want to make damned sure it doesn’t happen again.
“… for some reason strays are attracted to my place.”
it’s because you feed us so well.
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My ancestors bought their land from the Iroquois, but after the US came into being, there was wholesale theft as established areas became overcrowded and the westward expansion began. Part of being in a democracy is that you are responsible for what your government does, whether you approve or not.
Feeding is a sore point, Hipparchia. Pet food prices have jumped again.
i understand, believe me. i was out stocking up on cat food and cat litter earlier today. and i put gas in the car, which wasn’t as bad as back when $4 was the norm, but gas prices are inching back up too.
fortunately, the dog is a light eater for his size, but plastic baggies for poop patrol keep going up too.
There were a lot of things that got jacked up because of the price of fuel that don’t seem to come down, or continue to climb. The really annoying tactic is when the price stays the same, but they decrease the quantity, like the 18 pound bag becoming 16 pounds. I like to schedule trips and those changes affect the schedule.
David… Security Intelligence? Dont make me laugh. It has occurred to me to wonder if you are really 12 years old, making up the role you play on the Web. Someday your mother’s going to catch you at it…
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DD, You might read the thread in which both Kryten and I acknowledge the theft and the problems of dealing with it in the US and Australia. We know whereof we speak and can recognize the problem.
You blithely ignore the activities of the Israeli settlers who have been stealing huge chunks of Palestinian land, all in the name of “security”. Even Olmert has referred to their tactics as acting like “cossacks” and conducting “pogroms” in their treatment of Palestinians. This is happening now, not in the distant past.
NSA doesn’t have much in common with either the CIA or MI6, the UK counterpart is GCHQ, except that NSA is military, and we wear uniforms, not cloaks. As the Israelis could tell you, we use clearly identifiable US military aircraft and ships operating in international waters, but they attack and kill our personnel anyway. If the US had operated under Israeli doctrine in 1967, the state of Israel would have ceased to exist after the US reduced to country to rubble for that act of war.
This is politics, plain and simple, and has nothing to do with security. This is about the coming Israeli elections and the fact that Likud was leading in the polls, so Kadima and the Labor party decided that attacking Palestinians was an effective campaign tactic. Palestinian children are dying to help politicians win seats in the Knesset. It really is that simple and despicable.
Nobody has ever said that the Arabs would suddenly become all sweetness and light! LOL
However, Israel *IS* making things far worse, and has no chance in hell of killing every Arab (which is pretty much what they would have to do). Before Israel started all this crap, Most Arabs were quite happy just dealing with their own problems and settling whatever ancient disputes they had with each other. Until Israel got involved in a massive land grab for precious water resources using force rather than bargaining, and for whatever misbegotten reason the USA backed them, the Arab world had little or no interest in the USA or Israel other than to buy their goods etc. Now thanks to the stupidity of past American politicians and the greed of American businessmen, the USA is seen as simply the military arm of Israel. The Arabs generally have three very important attributes the USA lacks, 1) Ability to survive under extreme circumstances, 2) patience, 3) very long memories that can go on for many generations. The USA will pay sooner or later. Arabs are not very good at the forgive and forget, unless they are certain that whoever they have a grudge against has paid for their sins one way or another. Once the books are balanced, they are generally happy. It will cost a hell of a lot for Israel/USA to balance these books! The fact that Israel actually attacks the USA to try to prod the USA into doing their dirty work for them is a source of amusement in the Arab World (I know for a fact having spent over a year in the MidE on a fact finding/Security mission).
The ONLY reason the USA is a target of the Arab World is because they stupidly back Israel because the USA does whatever the Israel lobbyists want, and the Arabs know it. It has nothing to do with ideology, or the stupid belief in the USA that the Arabs hate the *American way of life* (what a joke! Why would the Arabs who actually have more freedom than the average American want to be a slave like the average ignorant, Hollywood indoctrinated idiot in the USA?) LOL America is truly the land of illusion. You strip away the thin veneer and it’s pretty ugly. It’s even a fake Democracy. When was the last time a majority of Americans actually got what they wanted? LOL
No. Until Israel started pulling the US marionette strings, the USA was simply a source of amusement and some wonder (because of the technological achievements the USA USED to make) and a buyer of Arab oil and gas. Now the USA is the enemy. The USA has nobody to blame but themselves, as always throughout the USA’s short history. US is great at causing their own problems. The Arab States have been around for millennial, they have survived everything thrown at them. 🙂 Not even Israel backed by the dwindling might of the USA can destroy them. It’s been tried before more than once. 🙂
One day, the Kurds (for example) will decide the US usefulness is outweighed by the nuisance value. And then the US will have some real trouble on their hands! 😀 The USA doesn’t even understand what a Kurd actually is! They think Kurdistan is just a place on a map. 🙂 But there are many, many Kurds living in many places, even within the USA. And every Kurd KNOWS they are a Kurd, and being a Kurd takes priority over Nationality, Religion and everything else. 🙂
One day, the USA & Israel will definitely reap what they sew. I hope it doesn’t happen until after all my US friends and myself are not around to see it.
Without the Israeli-Palestinian issue, what exactly do you think would cause the Arabs to hate Western nations? They still hold a grudge about the Crusades, but that didn’t kick off the terrorism.
Palestine is the core problem. A resolution of that problem eliminates the number one recruiting tool of Islamic terrorists. Of course, that assumes we won’t be invading any more Muslim countries based on lies, and leave those that have been invaded.
I’m not a fan of Arabs particularly. They were really annoying when I was stationed in Germany, constantly trying to blow-up my housing. And they cost me a lot of money with their attack on the ’72 Olympics. Instead of watching the events that I had already paid to see, I was called up for a joint powers conference on the situation.
I don’t like Hamas or Hezbollah or a lot of other groups and people around the world, but in the case of too many of them, the actions of Western nations have encouraged their creation. Al Qaeda was created at the insistence of the US to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, and then we didn’t do the necessary follow up to ensure stability. You reap what you sow, and we created out own worst enemy.
I really don’t see how peace in the Middle East will increase the threat to Western countries. If there is no great cause to push, the money and recruits will dry up.
Yep. 🙂
Of course, as we know Bryan, as with everything lately… “At’s about the oil stupid!” 😉 LOL Well, to be more precise… It’s about controlling the oil supplies and therefore, most of the World. It’s a tad short-sighted, not to mention amusing, that the USA thinks the rest of the World will allow that, even via proxies. 🙂
“Stupid is as stupid does!” 😀
Oh… It’s more than the palistinian conflict though Bryan. I discovered when I was there that there is a real anger against the USA for backing Turkey also (mainly because of the 1914-18 war where the Turks did some nasty things to Arabs generally). In 1929, Lt. Col. Thomas Edward Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia to people inhabiting fantasy land) wrote the entry for “Guerrilla” in the 14th edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. Writing of the Arab resistance to Turkish occupation in the war, he asks of the insurgents in Iraq and elsewhere: “… suppose they were an influence, a thing invulnerable, intangible, without front or back, drifting about like a gas? Armies were like plants, immobile as a whole, firm-rooted, nourished through long stems to the head. The Arabs might be a vapour…” It was typical of Lawrence to use the horror of gas warfare as a metaphor for insurgency. To control the land they occupied, he said “…the Turks would have need of a fortified post every four square miles, and a post could not be less than 20 men. The Turks would need 600,000 men to meet the combined ill wills of all the local Arab people. They had only 100,000 men available.” An he was right. 🙂 And once again, the USA (as it always does) backed the loosing side. 🙂
What Lawrence wrote about Turkey almost 90 years ago is true of the US occupation in Iraq today. He was a brilliant man, and all the goodwill he had created in the Mid East for Western nations has been well and truly squandered and destroyed. It will take another man like Lawrence to repair the damage done. Good luck finding such a man today.
Lawrence also wrote: “Rebellion must have an unassailable base …”
“In the minds of men converted to its creed. It must have a sophisticated alien enemy, in the form of a disciplined army of occupation too small to fulfill the doctrine of acreage: too few to adjust number to space, in order to dominate the whole area effectively from fortified posts.
It must have a friendly population, not actively friendly, but sympathetic to the point of not betraying rebel movements to the enemy. Rebellions can be made by 2 per cent active in a striking force, and 98 per cent passively sympathetic … Granted mobility, security … time, and doctrine … victory will rest with the insurgents, for the algebraical factors are in the end decisive, and against them perfections of means and spirit struggle quite in vain.”
Too bad the US military today is as ignorant and uneducated as much of the population. 🙂 Iraq would never have happened, or would have at least been done properly. 🙂
Lawrence will be proved right once again, as he always has been when it comes to the Mid East. People might do well to read his real works about Arabia. and I don’t mean Hollywood fiction either! LOL
Oh, there are a lot of reasons why we will never be “best friends forever”, but I concentrate on the major reasons they are willing to go around the world for a suicide mission, not why they won’t invite us to dinner.
Everyone knows that the only real concern the US has in the Middle East is oil. Without oil we would ignore them, like we ignore most of the world outside our borders, including Canada and Mexico. Americans tend to be among the least curious people in the world. Unfortunately this level of ignorance to leads to an abysmal foreign policy, as very few people care enough to even participate in decision making, and they usually have private reasons that have nothing to with the national interests of the US.
Most of our problems are caused by stumbling into situations without understanding the underlying problems or the history behind them. We have an amazing ability to make matters worse by saying the wrong thing, at the wrong time, or choosing sides by who they say they hate. It doesn’t seem to occur to those in charge to investigate whether the hate is real, or the possible reasons for it.
I have total faith in the ability of the US to do something stupid that will enrage new groups, but I would really like to see an end to the use of my paltry tax dollars to blow up children. It just doesn’t sit well, not matter what the concocted reason is supposed to be. Some things are just wrong.
You know I agree with that Bryan. Some things certainly are just wrong! But you and I and a seeming minority of others understand about such trivial things as honor, truth, reality and even right/wrong. Even that vaguest of concepts, a duty to fellow humans. And I *DON’T* need some trumped up fake religion to explain to me how to behave towards fellow man. The World has far too many hypocrites inhabiting it for my liking. I would happily kill a thousand hypocrites to save a single child or truly innocent human. Perhaps people who do understand such concepts and abide by them (many don’t) have a *soul*, and the others don’t. 😀 I don’t care what it’s called… all I know is, I am very happy to have *something* good within me that separates me from the hypocritical liars and thieves creating these problems.
One thing that the hypocrites don’t get (and which is a good thing IMHO) is that people like you and I can smell their BS and know they are lying as soon as they open their mouths, and yet they are so smug and secure in the knowledge that we don’t have a clue. Of course, our respective training and experience helps also. 😀
Lt. Col. Thomas Edward Lawrence understood. 🙂 Part of me wishes he were alive and well today, and another part is glad he isn’t here to see what’s happening. But I do find myself wondering… What would he do?
So many of the problems go back to the end of World War I and the mindless way the Middle East was divided up by the “Great Powers”. The Arabs, and other groups were screwed over in the solutions that Europe devised when they divided up the Ottoman Empire. A little more concerned for the actual groups that lived in the area would have gone a long way towards alleviating the problems we face today. It’s not as if there weren’t people who had worked in the area – there were, including Lawrence, who could have made things much easier, and more stable.
To some extent I think certain areas were intentionally mixed with the hope that internal strife would make them easier to rule. The Soviets did that a lot.
I really hate it when the US tries to be clever. We are no good at it, and it always comes back to bite us.
As you say, it’s really sad when the only people with a real concept of morality are spooks, while the heads of religious groups run around proclaiming that G-d is on the side of whatever brutal group of thugs that they support. G-d should sue for defamation.
[I do that so as not to give offense to certain religious people. For some reason it really pisses them off that I know about that. Apparently I offend them by not offending them, or something.]
I agree with the statement you made about the intentional mixing in the ME. I heard alot about that when I was moving around there.
To be fair, I think that the *problem* the USA has is that it’s a very young Nation. 🙂 The USA became big and strong too fast. If you look at the actions of the past century, it’s easy to make the comparison to a young spoiled brat. 🙂 You forefathers knew that would be a problem one day. One only has to read the US constitution to know they were worried about a spoiled tantrum destroying the Nation. The only real problem the USA (on her own turf) has had to deal with was ‘the great depression’ and most people seem to believe that wasn’t so bad, so they can cope with anything and do anything! No problems. 🙂 Compared to the Arabian nations, the USA is but a baby. When a nation has had to deal with adversity for millennia, then they know how to overcome and survive. 🙂
But, ignorance and misunderstanding can be a serious problem. Misunderstanding the Kurd’s for example. Every Kurd born anywhere KNOWS they are a Kurd and what that means. Their duty to the Kurd Nation is absolute. In the USA, you have about 13,000 Kurds (from memory). That’s 13,00 potential little bombs ticking towards the day when the Kurd’s explode. 🙂 The USA won’t have to worry about terrorists getting into the USA, they will already be there.
I understand about you not wanting to give offense to certain religious types. 🙂 But you are more… considerate to them than I am. LOL 😉 I haven’t yet forgiven what *Religion* did to me. 🙂
The Kurds are a prime example of US stupidity. I’ve have seen people talking about how grateful the Iraqi Kurds are to the US for getting rid of Saddam. They apparently think the Kurds have forgotten what Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, etc. have done to them, or that the gas that used and the aircraft dispersing it were made in the USA. Kurds don’t forget, and they want a Kurdistan.
No matter how often we encounter problems that are based on events that occurred centuries ago, Americans think that people will just forget about old injuries and move on with life. That isn’t the way most of the rest of the world works.
I think part of it is the fact that the US was settled by people who made the decision to cut themselves off from their roots and start fresh, so their children weren’t indoctrinated in the “tribal myths”, but that isn’t the pattern in most of the world.
Too many of today’s problems are caused by bad history, re-written events that were not actually as important as people now believe, and didn’t happen as people assume. Colossal screw-ups become heroic moments as lies are spun to cover stupidity. Fairy tales become hallowed history. It is amazing to watch.
Too much of what is done is based on belief rather than knowledge, and the results always tend to be disastrous.
True. It’s obvious to myself and anyone who can read the U.S. of A. Constitution as originally penned, and other documents of the time, that the founders understood the dangers. They were certainly not perfect and they had their own motives at the time. *shrug* However, I believe they tried very hard to ensure the continued survival and prosperity of the U.S. of A. They were willing to compromise on some of their own ideals, but not their ethics. They showed amazing foresight, a very rare thing this past century or so! There has been a concerted effort in recent decades to neuter the Constitution with a view to taking any and all rights of all citizens. The *Republicans* today are the worst offenders here, but today’s Democrats (and American’s generally) are not much better. Allowing the Republicans to get away with their illegal and immoral activities by turning a blind eye, or remaining ignorant (I know some people do so purposely. What they don’t know they don’t have to worry about. Ignorance is bliss they believe. And if they knew, they may actually have to do something) is the same as condoning it. In my opinion, if a Republican says something, believe the opposite. You’ll be right a lot more often than not. I doubt these people could be honest or speak the truth if their lives actually did depend on it. As that old joke goes:
Q. How can you tell a Politician is lying?
A. Their lips are moving.
Is so very true today. These people don’t even have a real ideology. It’s just a smoke screen to con the mostly moronic ‘conservatives’ into believing the care about them and want what they want. LOL All they want, is power and control. They couldn’t care less about anyone who isn’t *one of them* no matter what the sycophants believe or think. Look how many people kissed Bush’s hairy ass and only got painfully screwed for their trouble. And most won’t even admit it! They can *NEVER* be wrong! It’s impossible! They’d all have a stroke just thinking about it.
Do yourselves a favor… Just round them up and send them to some deserted island, or just shoot them. You won’t miss them, and your lives will improve dramatically. 😉 LOL
If your founding fathers were alive today, there wouldn’t even be a discussion about whether or not to deal with them, only about the methods. *shrug* But what do I know. 😉
Anyway, as far as Gaza… so, it continues:
Israeli Strike Hits U.N. Complex in Gaza Strip
So… let’s see. That’s… five (or six?) Israeli strikes on *KNOWN* UN facilities and people. But they are all accidents. Just one of those things, right? Funny though… Even the Germans in WW2 were a lot more accurate than the modern Israeli Army and Air Force seem to be. A curious dichotomy, isn’t it? 🙂
BTW, I use the word ‘dichotomy’ in the sense (possibly grammatically incorrectly *shrug*) that the current Israel actions and excuses contradicts common sense, knowledge and belief: “the dichotomy of the one and the many” (Louis Auchincloss). In other words, since they could only be so inaccurate on purpose, they must, therefore, be hitting UN and civilian targets purposely.
Nice company the U.S. of A. keeps. Americans must be so proud. 🙂
George Washington specifically warned about what the Republicans have done in his farewell address. The language is a bit old fashioned, but the meaning is clear. Franklin specifically warned about giving up liberty for security. Their meanings were clear and prophetic, and yet, people claiming to honor American traditions, and who call themselves “conservative” have been violating the principle established at the founding of the nation.
Only those who identify themselves as liberals seem to be interested in preserving the best parts of the American system of government.
I’m about to write my last post on Gaza. With the targeting of the UN warehouse it is obvious that ethnic cleansing is the clear intent of the IDF. No other theory fits all the facts.