The View From Afar
Chris Berg wrote an interesting opinion piece at the ABC: Secrets and fears of a paranoid government
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Nobody believes the disclosure of classified information should be legal. Any organisation, private or public, needs some degree of confidentiality to function. As the Guardian writer Glenn Greenwald points out, Snowden “made his choice based on basic theories of civil disobedience”. He will bear the consequences.
But an Espionage Act charge goes well beyond that. Disclosing information about the actions of a democratically elected government to the media is not the same as secretly undermining national security for the benefit of the hostile foreign powers – not on any practical, ethical, or philosophical grounds.
…It was embarrassing, but not damaging, when the world read America’s diplomatic cables in 2011. It is embarrassing that the world knows the US government is listening to its phone calls. But have these embarrassments materially hurt American security interests? Not likely. Were they done in the service of a foreign power? Quite the opposite.
People may wonder what gives an individual the right to question the actions of his government? If you are in the military, you are actually required to make the decision whether or not an order is legal.
As a result of the war crimes trials following World War II the Nuremberg defense, ‘I was just following orders’ is no longer available. After the decision in United States v. Keenan, members of the military cannot follow orders that are obviously illegal. Of course, there is no real definition possible of ‘obviously illegal’, so the individual in the military has to do a reality check on orders that don’t seem right. If the order was illegal, you get dinged if you obeyed it, but if you don’t obey the order and it is determined to be legal, you get dinged for insubordination. [If you think this is confusing, just read Catch 22.]
Congresscritter Alan Grayson [D-FL] explains why he thinks the surveillance is illegal. He is an attorney who has made a lot of money winning cases in courts. I agree with him, that the military and CIA have no legal right to do these things inside the United States. Within the US borders, the FBI and DoJ handle these issues.
12 comments
The problem with the FBI is that they are completely and totally technologically incompetent. They would need the NSA to run the program even if the FBI was the official lead because the FBI is so incompetent they can’t even manage IT contractors. A simple program to share data between FBI offices, basically Google Apps for Feebs, is now so many millions of dollars over budget and so many years late that it’s basically been abandoned while the FBI tries to figure out what to do next. That’s incompetence on a large scale.
Talking about incompetence, Windows 8.1 Preview was released today. So I snapshotted my Windows 8 virtual machine (so I could roll back to before installing the preview on top of it), and went to Microsoft’s site to see how to install it. Microsoft directed me to download a small application that would, apparently, install an icon in my Windows 8 Store to allow downloading and installing the update. I say “apparently” because I clicked on the application and Windows 8 promptly replies, “We can’t verify who created this file. Do you really want to run it?” Uhm, let me get this straight. Microsoft owns the signing infrastructure for signing files under Windows 8. Yet they don’t sign this binary? What,they’re afraid they’ll overload their signing infrastructure by signing one simple little binary? Wow. The incompetence is simply astonishing. (And no, I did not click on “Yes”, Microsoft is incompetent enough that they managed to get hacked and it’s a virus that I just downloaded from their web site — not that Windows isn’t a virus to begin with of course :twisted:).
The FBI records project has been the retirement job for at least two generations of contract programmers. I think the latest effort was the third time they have tried it. They have never taken the time, nor spent the money to get a design for the system, so they keep hiring contractors to build what they say they want, and then discover it doesn’t actually provide what they need, so there are more characters in the change orders than the code that has been written.
They should have actually hired some competent IT people to design, implement, and operate their system, but since Reagan everything is out-sourced.
I remember when NSA asked for a waiver to bid on a contract to conduct a security evaluation of NASA’s IT infrastructure. It was after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the Agency was trying to justify its existence. The waiver was denied and IBM got the job at a cost of at least twice what NSA had quoted. The waiver was required because of the rules restricting what DoD can do in the US. It seems like no one cares anymore.
The problem is that these people are even attempting to comply with the existing laws. They could have granted a waiver to NSA for the project to support the FBI, but they damn sure can’t get domestic surveillance warrants from the FISA court.
That is a hoot. They didn’t sign the damn program. Hell, a competent hacker would have covered that problem. They stumble from one problem to the next, but are still making obscene amounts of money. Life is not fair. I could be as incompetent as M$ which some practice, but no one would pay me for it.
If you are in the military, you are actually required to make the decision whether or not an order is legal.
That is very true, or was. As I’ve mentioned before, I did once question my orders though that was more a case of wrong tasking than legality. My team and I were not suited to the task, we were trained for different missions. Some *Commanders* tend to think that any soldier under their command will do any job no matter what. I had to attend a formal meeting with three superior officers after that even to explain myself (it’s a formal requirement). I did, and that was accepted and the end of it. As the US (should have) learned, wrong tasking of assets only creates problems. And yes, it is a Catch-22. 🙂 Joseph Heller was quite a visionary. Sadly, he passed away in ’99. I always enjoyed his satire! 😀 😉
Unfortunately, only the Officers are required to take a Legal course during trainingnow, and it’s optional. It used to be NCO’s also, and manditory. And the junior ranks were taught to see their NCO’s if they had any misgivings over an order. The NCO’s used to be the *moral & Legal Compass* for a unit, and a buffer between the ranks and the Officers. It’s all changed now… I’m glad I’m out of it. *shrug*
Your FBI always remind me of our ASIO, and Clowns. Except that Clowns get paid to entertain, and most are pretty good at their job’s! IN DIO, I and my team spent more time trying to ensure that ASIO didn’t do something else really stupid than we did doing the job we were supposed be doing (Looking after National Security). It’s a sad day when the biggest threat to Nat. Security is one of your own Security Org’s! (For those who don’t know, ASIO -> ‘The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation’. I’m glad to see that ASIO”s role has been watered down and they are now only *Information Gatherer’s* rather than used for Field Operations! DIO -> ‘Defence Intelligence Organisation’ is also primarily an Information Intel Org, though their scope is International, ASIO’s is National. The other BIG difference is ASIO are Civilian, DIO are Military. And another BIG difference between DIO and say the CIA, is that DIO operate both Nationally & Internationally. They are limited Nationally to Foreign Nationals, except where there is a positive link between Foreign Nationals of interest and a Citizen. The reality was (in my time) that we spent most of our time watching and talking to Foreign Diplomat’s. 🙂
When I was with DIO, one of the first signs (A poster) you saw as you entered the HQ building (if you knew where it was, it was never made public) was a quote by Thomas Berger: “The art and science of asking questions is the source of all knowledge.” 🙂
BTW Bryan, you would have been a good asset at DIO in the 80’s. We had some very good Analysts but always needed more. 🙂 I think you would have liked it there (mostly). 😉 😀 Would have been fun working with you, even though I was in the field most of the time. 🙂
Whoa! If you want even more evidence of bad stuff, read Digby and the McClatchy piece she links to. Old jokes running “don’t turn on your brother; turn on your brother” come to mind.
(H/T Avedon for the Digby ref.)
Yah, McClatchy’s been doing their usual fine job, Steve. They also tracked down a former Stasi colonel and asked him what his thoughts were on all the recent revelations. His first reaction: Envy. He wished he’d had those kinds of technological capabilities when he was leading a department of the Stasi.
Yah, USA USA, we’re #1! In surveillance technology, anyhow. Yay.
I linked to the McClatchy article in my Babushki post, Steve, when everyone was occupied with the Voting Rights atrocity of the Supremes.
Uh, Badtux, you do have a financial interest in the expansion of surveillance. If you are lucky, y’all could get a contract for watching people steal the new monitoring equipment the Senate wants to put along the southern border to keep the livestock from water.
As long as we are going to throw money at border security, I think it would be nice if we installed some markers on the US-Canadian border in the plains. It would probably be of interest to the locals to find out where it was, because no one seems to be very sure.
Kryten, my liver would never last in Australia. I have spent some leisure time with RAAF types, and it wasn’t a very pleasant week that followed. I enjoyed the gathering more than the analyzing of the data, and that was one of the reasons I left the service. It was obvious that the people at the top wanted me to do things that weren’t really part of my specialty, but that I had proved I could do. I didn’t go through all of the training, and put up with all of the necessary periodic refreshers, to head off in a different direction. I really liked doing what I had trained for, and that didn’t seem to be very important to the people who were making the decisions. I sort of sneaked out before they figured out what I was doing and hit me with a ‘stop loss’ letter involuntarily extending my enlistment.
Actually, you don’t have to ask questions, you just have to learn how to listen. It is amazing what people will tell you if they believe you are really listening to them. Asking questions can be tricky, because they usually indicate what you are interested in knowing. ‘Active listening’ takes a bit longer, but the information is usually more detailed than you would get from questions.
DIO was a *dry* place Bryan. Well… apart from the Diplomatic Engagements (any excuse for a party)! All the Diplomats knew the game. 🙂 The Russians started it (here). The figured nobody could ever drink a Russian under the table… but then they met Aussies! lol: On the serious side, everyone was there to gather intel, and everyone knew they had to give to get. The trick was, ensuring you got something more valuable than you gave. 😉 It was an interesting game, with very high stakes. By the late 80’s the Russians were more concerned with Asia than anyone else (including, or especially, the USA). And since we were very invested in Asia (for our own local interests). So we had a nice *quid pro quo* going. Nobody knew more about what the USA was doing than the Russians. 😉 We actually were trained how to drink! 😆 (We had various tricks, and some chemical assistance). 🙂
Sure, listening was important. But often the response to certain questions, phrased in the correct way, at the correct time, were as important if not more. It’s why we spent a lot of time being trained in Psychology and body language (etc.) You never wanted to play poker with anyone in my section. You’d loose everything, and spend the rest of your life trying to figure out how! 😈
I used to enjoy going to a Casino before… Then it became so boring. And the big Casino’s are very good at spotting the *operators*. And they tend not to have a sense of humor about it. 🙂 *shrug*
Trust me m8… You would have loved it! ) 😀
Anyway… Here’s our ‘Spy Chief’s’ take on Snowden:
Spy chief Steve Meekin says Australian intelligence concerned about rogue insiders in wake of Edward Snowden leaks
Physiological responses was a main segment in my investigative interviewing courses at the police academy. They were part of series of courses you could take as you progressed in your career. It was the one that confirmed that the polygraph was almost useless for police work. At that point I had been forced by higher ups to use it twice, and both times the results that came back were impossible. The people who were labeled as ‘deceptive’ had ironclad alibis, in one instance the iron was in the bars of the local jail.
The people at the top are always looking for short cuts and sure things, instead of just getting on with the job doing what we know works.
Well, you were carrying out negotiations which always require back and forth.
I was never able to convince people that the biggest concern the Soviets had was China. Yes, the US was a threat, but China could actually occupy territory and control it, while the US couldn’t. They would use Mother Mud and Grandfather Frost to deal with most armies, but the Chinese had the people to hold the land, not just take it. Russians remember the last time it happened and lasted for centuries. The US can’t remember last year.
Meekin needs to understand that the best way of avoiding ‘rogues’ like Snowden is to not violate the privacy of Australians.
I am so glad I didn’t have Meekin as my boss! I probably would have quit much sooner.
Hmmm… Time for some quotations… How about from ‘Yes (Prime) Minister’. 😉
“That’s another of those irregular verbs, isn’t it? I give confidential press briefings; you leak; he’s being charged under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act.”
“You can’t put the nation’s interest at risk just because of some silly sentimentality about justice.”
“Government is not about morality, it is about stability; keeping things going, preventing anarchy, stopping society falling to bits. Still being here tomorrow.”
“A Politician’s dilemma. He must obviously follow his conscience, but he must also know where he’s going. So he can’t follow his conscience, because it may not be going the same way that he is.”
“In government, many people have the power to stop things happening but almost nobody has the power to make things happen. The system has the engine of a lawn mower and the brakes of a Rolls Royce.”
“Press statements are not delivered under oath.”
“Government is not about morality, it is about stability; keeping things going, preventing anarchy, stopping society falling to bits. Still being here tomorrow.”
“Diplomacy is about surviving to the next century. Politics is about surviving until Friday afternoon.”
“The public aren’t interested in foreign affairs. All they want to know is who are the goodies and who are the baddies.”
And last, but by no means least… 😉
Heh… That show was WAY ahead of it’s time, or perhaps it just shows that things never really change. 😉 Did you know that Maggie Thatcher tried to get the show cancelled several times? She said in her Memoirs that “It was too close to the truth.” 😆
Oh… And perhaps ex-PM Gillard should have watched the show, and understood satire & irony. 😉
“The Prime Minister is much more worried by discontent among back-benchers than among nurses and teachers. Nurses and teachers can’t vote against him until the next election. Back-benchers can vote against him at 10 o’clock tonight.”
And… one last one *for the road*:
“Yes, we will want simultaneous translators. No, not when the PM meets the leaders of the English-speaking nations. Yes, the English-speaking nations can be said to include the United States. With a certain generosity of spirit.”
😆
To be serious for a moment…
I think that things were much simpler until the 80’s. Things were in balance (for the most part), then Ronny and the USA’s paranoia upset that balance. I suspect that in your job you had at least hints that the USSR didn’t really care much about *Star Wars*, but it became a good excuse for them to take more money from the public purse because they were worried about China (as you said). The USA didn’t bankrupt the USSR, they did that to themselves (and some of their Diplomats knew that was going to happen). We were more concerned with the USA because the USA was sticking their over-sized nose in our region too much, and we definitely didn’t trust Reagan or the direction the Republicans were heading. And neither did the USSR or China for that matter. *sigh* Fact is, many Soviet’s didn’t consider the USA a *threat* as such, they considered the USA a PITA and a bunch of amateur *busy bodies*.
The major problem the USA has had for decades is no real long-term vision or goals, either Nationally or Internationally. And until that changes, nobody is safe. Perhaps especially American’s. From what I saw in my time there, I don’t believe the USA has ever truly understood other Nations, I know some individuals did, but they were largely ignored or underrated. The USA has had some great Diplomat’s, and I met a couple. If you talked to any of them, I guarantee they’d be bitter.
The world honors history, the US honors the news. The world uses professional diplomats, the US use campaign contributors. The world thinks that local language proficiency is important, the US thinks everyone should speak English. The world thinks that decisions of the national government are binding, the US thinks that decisions are only binding until the next President is elected.
The really don’t get that Russia remembers the Mongol invasion, the Chinese remember the Opium Wars, the Indians remember the Salt Tax, the Arabs remember the promises made by Lawrence, the Iranians remember the UK/US overthrow of their prime minister, the Colombians remember the theft of Panama, etc.
Those things matter, they don’t go away, and they color relations forever. The US just doesn’t get it. This past week the US Supreme Court acted as if racism is gone from the US, at the same time a TV personality was watching her empire crumble around her because of her racist rhetoric. The ‘slave states’ are still trying to disenfranchise minority voters, this time with the excuse of ‘voter fraud’.
It is the CEO culture imposed on the rest of us.