They Are Pirates
The BBC reports that there were Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship
More than 10 people have been killed after Israeli commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army says.
Armed forces boarded the largest vessel overnight, clashing with some of the 500 people on board.
It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.
If they had done this within the internationally accepted 12-mile limit, they might have a case. If they had hailed the ship during daylight and boarded, they might have a case. When you drop in at night and seize a vessel in international waters, that is piracy.
The latest story is that the people on ship seized weapons from two Israeli commandos and started firing. I’m not joking – they honestly have said that two of Israel’s elite commando force were mugged by hippies. I don’t know about the peace activists, but the Israeli government spin-doctors really need their meds adjusted.
Bibi canceled a White House visit to “deal with the crisis”, rather than the truth “to avoid getting yelled at”. That’s assuming that Raum didn’t call and tell him that this would not be a good time to visit Washington.
This may be the final straw for the Turkish government, Israel’s only true non-enemy in the Mideast. The ship was Turkish.
20 comments
They are criminal thugs and they are state actors but not really pirates…
Pirates, despite the stories, tended not to kill their victims. They wanted loot but they did not want future victims to aggressively fight back. It made the transaction cost to high.
See/listen to: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2009/05/leeson_on_pirat.html
.-= last blog ..Friday Ark #297 =-.
You are thinking of the Somali pirates, Steve. In my area, through and including the 20th century, the pirates don’t leave witnesses.
Technically speaking they would be called “privateers” if they worked for first world countries, but we called them pirates when they worked for the government in Tripoli in the early 19th century.
We can but hope that this will *finally* be the last straw for the World and Israel will get it’s much deserved come-uppercase! We can hope… But I doubt it will happen. It’s well overdue, but I’ll certainly not be holding my breath for any kind of justice to be served. If they had a LOT of oil, or a lot of mineral resources etc… They would have been dealt with long ago. 🙂
Still… It’s possible the Turks still have some balls, so maybe they will do something. A century ago, they would have already been chopping off heads with scimitars. I’m not at all sure the World has changed for the better.
Things will get really nasty if the Turks do anything, because they are a member of NATO, but Israel has really screwed the Turkish military who were the prime movers in the cooperation between Turkey and Israel.
While I doubt it will happen, it would be nice if the US abstained at the Security Council. That would be our best move to stay out of this mess and stop getting the blame for every idiot move the Likudniks make. It’s time for Israel to take the heat for its actions. They haven’t cooperated with the current administration in any way, shape, or form, so just cut them loose.
I have made it plain for a long time that IMHO Turkey is more important to real US interests in the Middle East than Israel.
What, exactly, are the Turks supposed to do? War against Israel isn’t something that is winnable for Turkey unless they have the backing of at least some NATO states and they really don’t want war anyhow. It’s unclear what the NATO response to an attempt to invoke Article 5 would be. On the other hand, allowing their civilians to be slaughtered without a response isn’t going to be acceptable politically anymore than refusing to go after Osama bin Laden after 9/11 would have been acceptable politically. My guess is that Turkey is going to escort a new flotilla, with Israel invited to inspect the ships before they leave Turkey, and will escort that flotilla to Gaza with Turkish ships. What does Israel do then? Attack Turkish military vessels? That would be a clear act of war and Article 5 material, but then, if the U.S. refused to criticize Israel for sinking the U.S.S. Liberty, then they certainly aren’t going to do so if Israel attacks a bunch of wogs, even if said wogs are supposed U.S. allies…
Which brings up the point that the Turks are *NOT* happy with the United States right now and have not been for some time. They’d pretty much gotten a handle on Kurdish terrorism against them, then the U.S. went and removed the check of Saddam upon the Kurds. That was the whole point of them refusing to allow the U.S. to invade through Turkey, it was a bad deal for Turkey because of the Kurdish situation, the Kurds could not mount full-scale assaults into Turkey as long as they had to worry about Saddam at their back, whereas now… well, read for yourself. They kept their displeasure at a low boil due to their dependence upon U.S. military weapons, but clearly if the Israelis attack Turkish military vessels and Article 5 is invoked but the U.S. ignores it, that’s the end of any relationship between the U.S. and Turkey, as well as possibly the end of NATO in its current form since NATO at that point basically turns into two blocs, those who support Turkey, and those who support the United States and Israel.
So what does Turkey do then? Attempt to get sanctions? From whom? The U.S. would be sure to veto any U.N. Security Council sanctions. They could attempt their own blockade of Israel in retaliation, which would devastate Israel’s economy because civilian ships aren’t going to run a gauntlet of Turkey’s German-built submarines (insurance won’t pay if they’re sunk as part of an act of war), but what’s the end game? I don’t think anybody on either side has thought this out. Which is a scary thought indeed…
– Badtux the War Penguin
This isn’t a Turkish problem. This is a Global problem. There were 40 different Nationalities aboard, and those killed and injured were from several, including an Australian. Many are being detained and interrogated without cause, including two Australian Journalists.
Gaza attack: Rudd demands investigation
Rudd has serious problems here, his popularity is falling fast, and he can not afford another screw up. He has to take a strong stand and deal with this effectively, or he’ll be a single term PM!
Flotilla raid passengers tell of violent attacks
Israel’s attack on vessels will only benefit Hamas
To be continued…
..continued.
At least one other American realizes that Israel once again showed it total disdain for the USA by launching the attack on Memorial Day. Maybe there will be enough others… *shrug*
Dr. Alan Sabrosky: The Madness of Arrogance – Israel’s Attack on the Gaza Aid FLOTILLA
Reactions to the Terrorist Israeli Attack on the Freedom Flotilla in International Waters
Pak demands UN, OIC action over Israel attack on ‘Freedom Flotilla’
So… I guess we’ll see what happens. Many Countries leaders have their standing, and even their jobs, riding on this terrorist attack. And Most know it!
Especially laughable is the excuse, “well, our boarding party was being repelled so we had to kill all those people.” Uhm, if the pirates are getting the shit kicked out of them when they attempt to board a vessel, well, that’s one of the risks of being a pirate, yo. Of course, then the pirates opened fire with real weapons, which is one of the risks of resisting acts of piracy on the open seas which is why it’s usually *not* a good idea to resist pirates unless you’re better armed than them, but then the whole point of this exercise was to provoke Israelis into opening fire on civilians and the Israelis fulfilled, yes indeed. At this point, betting that Israelis will be racist trigger-happy assholes is a sucker bet.
Oops, I forgot. Saying that the Israelis are acting like assholes means I’m going to be called anti-Semitic by the Israel apologists. Uhm, calling anybody who points out you’re being an asshole of being an anti-Semite just proves the point, yo.
– Badtux the Asshole-recognizin’ Penguin
They try to board a passenger vessel with 600+ people on board with a dozen guys and the mission planners didn’t see a major problem? What happened to the old practice of firing a round over the bow to get the captain’s attention?
They guaranteed themselves a confrontation by repelling onto the deck with a small force. If there had been arms and the intent to use them on the ship, they would have lost the team. They obviously didn’t expect any resistance, or they wouldn’t have tried it, and overreacted when people panicked.
The reports coming from those released are pretty consistent that the people on the vessel reacted to Israeli fire. Forced into a “fight or flight” choice in crowded conditions, some people fought.
It is to be hoped that the Turks stop at severing diplomatic relations, and the US abstains in the UN. That is probably the easiest way of defusing this situation without more blood shed. That might depend on exactly who was among the Turks on the vessel, and whether the US can understand that Israel has gone too far.
It has been noted that a survivor of the USS Liberty attack was on the Marmara.
They obviously didn’t expect any resistance, or they wouldn’t have tried it, and overreacted when people panicked.
Don’t give them ANY excuses! They deserve none at all!! You cannot tell me that any experienced Military in the world wouldn’t expect trouble when you drop a bunch of heavily armed commando’s on a ship with 600 civilians in the dark! Only a completely arrogant bunch of assh*les would expect things to go peacefully! AND… opening fire on unarmed civilians in International Waters breaks several treaties and law’s, and when I was military we had standing orders never to do that! So, the commando’s must have had an open kill order. ANY soldier who knowingly kills civilians is a criminal.
All the planners and leaders, the commando’s, and those who authorized this debacle, should all be dropped into the middle of the ocean and left for the sharks to deal with.
Actually, I can’t think of a single tactical reason for boarding that vessel on the seas. It would have been easier and safer to direct it to port. No master of a passenger vessel is going to endanger those passengers by refusing to comply with a warship. The entire operation was stupid.
If I use this WSJ poll as a guide, it’s certain the USA will do nothing, as usual.
That’s pretty much what I expected to see.
What should happen to Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza?
There are a few with an opposing view. This by an ex-Marine who writes for Salem News and sums it up nicely.
Israel Attacks Unarmed Americans in International Waters
I may not entirely agree with his style although, he is a journalist, but I do agree with his sentiments.
Kryten, I have never received a satisfactory explanation for the unreasoned support for Israel. The support among elected officials is stronger and more consistent than the support among American Jews.
I can only assume that politicians are afraid of being called anti-Semitic by a few conservative Jewish organizations, or are on the pad [police slang for taking bribes] of those groups.
Israel has not been a reliable ally, and we keep having to arrest their spies in the US government.
Israel doesn’t honor its agreements, and doesn’t bargain in good faith. It is in the political interests of the Likud Party that the nation of Israel never feel secure.
I predict that within a short time the government of Israel will hold a press conference and display various weapons manufactured in Iran that it claims to have found on the ships it attacked. It always finds them, the way certain cops always find drugs.
Yeah, I understand all that. (And I know what ‘on the pad means’, I watched all the US Cop shows in the 80’s!) 😛 😉 Here, we normally say ‘on the take’.
You know my background, so you should understand when I say that as far as I (and those who served with me) think, the Israel Likud is little different from the Democratic Kampuchea (Khmer Rouge) of the 70’s. Other than that they have Nukes, and they also keep many of the US nasty WMD’s the USA would rather the World didn’t find out about. That’s one reason the US politicians are sh*t scared of Israel, then you have groups like AIPAC. Plus, they pretty much control most official US media one way or another and the so-called ‘think tanks’. *shrug* What can be expected? Goering and Goebbels would be proud, just before they gassed them for being Jews! 😈
Maybe it’s like… battered Jew syndrome? 😛 (And yes, I do know that not all Jews are as insane as their leaders, but then again… they keep voting them in. Just like recent US history.)
BTW… for anyone offended, boo-hoo… to bad. For far too long now has the State of Israel and those who support it and vote these criminals in time and again, have been given an easy out with zero accountability. Usually by those same people who decry what was done to the Jews over 60 years ago. Certainly there are many Jews who do not condone what their Father State is doing, often in their name, but they don’t seem to be to keen on doing anything about it. All they do by their silence is legitimize what their State is doing, and by extension, what was done to them.
And so… once again, history repeats. Same argument, different actors. I’ve heard, and seen with my own eyes, the same thing before.
the past decade has proven to me that the entire World is insane. I’m glad that I personally won’t have to put up with it for too much longer.
BTW, again… 😉
I don’t know if this is just posturing, but taken at face value, it seems Turkey is pissed and has had enough.
WSJ: Turkey Demands Punishment for Israel
And, most telling:
I do suspect that both Israel and the USA are about to get their comeuppance! At least… I can but hope so. *shrug*
Ouch.
My bet is that the Turks settle for a single symbolic flotilla escorted by Turkish military vessels with nearby air cover available, and sail it to Gaza, and if the Israelis are sensible they will let the Turks do their little bit of political kabuki theater and sail home and then re-impose their blockade again in a little less ham-handed manner as the Turkish politicians strut and prance about how manly they were in standing up to the mean Israelis but otherwise take no real action against Israel (and quietly crack down on any further flotilla attempts from Turkey because of course they don’t *want* to have to take real action against Israel, only a madman wants a war with a nuclear state).
Of course, at this point, expecting the Israelis to do what’s sensible is like expecting a madman in an institute for the criminally insane to do what’s sensible… their recent history shows no penchant for doing anything of the sort. These assholes are just insane enough to attack Turkish military vessels on the high seas, at which point all hell breaks loose and we get the blockade scenario that I mention above.
Yes, I have to agree with you on all points Badtux (there’s a shock!) 😉 😛
Of course, Israel are insane, so if Turkey does do what you suggest… all bet’s are off!
I was looking for a well thought out legal treatise (or at least, a legitimate argument based on International Law, and UN Charters) about the whole Gaza (and by extension, Israel/Palestine) problem the past few years. I came acros this:
Gaza: Not a War of Self-Defense
It’s a USA based op-ed and legal-news forum called ‘JURIST’ for opinions from Professor’s of Law and guest columnists.
JURIST Guest Columnist Victor Kattan of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, says that Israel’s Gaza offensive cannot be legally justified by any right of self-defense and instead constitutes aggression and a forcible deprivation of the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination…
He makes what I believe are some valid and legitimate points.
Here’s a couple more items:
Palestine and the International Criminal Court
The US-Israel Standoff over Settlements
It’s interesting to me that the authors of these articles are all British. I’ve yet to see anything remotely similar from an American (with the exception of some bloggers, I’m talking about from the MSM or Politicians).
Kryten, it’s not about what I “recommend”, it’s what the political situation faced by Turkish politicians is going to force them to do. People are angry and upset and are demanding that their politicians do something. Nobody in the Turkish government is insane so they don’t want a war with Israel, but Turkey is a democracy for better or for worse and can’t simply ignore the public sentiment, thus why I am betting on the symbolic flotilla (with Israel quietly asked, behind the scenes, to approve the contents of the cargo holds before the flotilla leaves Turkey). That way they demonstrate their “resolve” to their constituents without actually doing anything, if you get my drift, since the supplies carried would be supplies that the Israelis were going to let the Palestinians have anyhow.
Will Israel go along with this idea? Uhm… it would be the sane thing to do, but sanity seems to be in preciously small supply in the nation at the moment. Siiiiigh! But from the way the Turks are talking, they’re sending their flotilla escorted by Turkish Navy ships anyhow whether Israel approves or not, so if Israel behaves in the insane manner that it has behaved as of late… oh my.