Dr. Masters put this up to show the variance of temperatures around the world in July 2009. If you don’t live in North America East of the Rockies, the southern half of South America, European Russia, near the Sea Okhotsk, or on the Chukotski Peninsula, you would call it Global Warming, because for most of the planet, that’s what is happening.
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48 comments
Sorry, but I don’t believe in global warming. Thirty years ago, we were being warned of another Ice Age, now we’re being told the planet is too warm. The Earth goes through warming and cooling cycles. It’s normal. No panic needed.
SSG is misremembering his/her junior college course. It was in Am. Lit, not Climatology, and Thornton Wilder’s “Skin of Our Teeth,” not the Keeling Curve, that warned of a coming ice age thirty years ago.
Global Cooling was a minority report that was subjected to the normal bad science reporting in the popular media. Actually on the 20k year “wobble cycle” we should be cooling, but after we launched all of the satellites and started to get good global numbers, we discovered that the ½°F cooling that was seen between 1945 and 1964 has been replaced by more than a degree C of warming since.
Much of the cooling was probably the result of particulate matter in the atmosphere as a result of World War II and the above ground nuclear testing.
It isn’t warming everywhere, as the graphic shows, it is climate change. The poles are warming and that is raising sea level which is already apparent for several Pacific islands.
It is definitely a concern to those of us who live in hurricane prone areas, as the number of major hurricanes has jumped. It isn’t academic for us.
All the weather reporters here are saying that it’s definitely getting hotter, and not just a bit. We have recorded our warmest August on record. We had one day at 29.3C! And it’s still officially winter. In Jan, we had the hottest night ever recorded at 37.7C. This summer is expected to be very bad. We have also been getting unseasonal (and unusual for us in the South) gale force winds, up to 150km/h. If we get a very hot, dry summer, and gale force winds… It will be very bad.
It’s not academic for us either. 🙂
And BTW… there is MUCH scientific *proof* now that this global weather change is NOT part of any *normal* cycle.
The graphic seem to show you guys 3° higher than normal and there is definitely an El Niño in the Pacific, which has been suppressing Atlantic hurricanes and increasing the number of Pacific storms.
You definitely don’t want another fire season like last year.
Britain and the West coast of Europe, OTOH, may have colder winters and hotter summers if the Atlantic currents change as a result of the warming oceans. There is no way to know for sure.
I updated hurricane Bill, and the pressure is still dropping on that sucker. I hope no one stumbles into it. The East coast is going to get some board worthy waves from it.
@ John B. – I’m female and I wasn’t in junior college at that time, being that I was around 9 years old. Sorry.
@Kryten42-There’s just as much proof that it isn’t. Link
BTW, how are you doing? Feeling ok, I hope.
Living in an area which will initially freeze as Global Warming really takes off it is not something I relish.
Here’s an aticle which I pray is not the harbinger of far, far worse
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8205864.stm
.-= last blog ..As a holiday bonus here’s some hot pussy action =-.
The methane bubbling is also taking place in Alaska and Canada as the tundra melts. Starting the process was a lot easier than stopping it will be.
Yes, the change in that current on the Atlantic coast of Europe is going to be a mess, but you will be able to take a dog sled to France in the winter.
“Sorry, but I don’t believe in global warming.” – SSG
That’s what you believe, SSG? It isn’t a matter of faith or lack of faith; it’s a matter of the already large and still growing preponderance of scientific evidence. You are simply mistaken when you say “There’s just as much proof that it isn’t.” I’m curious: do you work for an oil company?
When I was a college student, (ahem) a few decades ago, that evidence was unclear, and the reality of future global climate change was very much not yet established. And so I remained uncommitted on the subject, awaiting more and better evidence.
Today, one can cherry-pick evidence against climate change… that’s what you appear to have done… but if one has no axe to grind in the matter, a great majority of climate scientists offer evidence that we’re facing (ahem again) “change we can believe in.”
If you like being contrarian, go right ahead; you’re the one who is more likely to be alive when the change does… or does not… happen.
.-= last blog ..Watch Your Om, Buds =-.
No, I don’t work for an oil company, just like I wasn’t in junior college thirty years ago to “misremember” things. I simply hold an opinion that doesn’t agree with your own.
As for cherry-picking evidence, that would apply to both sides of this issue, I think. Perhaps we should agree to disagree.
ssg, your link doesn’t have a whole heckuva lot of proof in it, just a lot of writings, and some of the stuff i looked at there has been pretty thoroughly debunked.
not to mention that the site appears to be produced by someone who has no earthly idea how ice cores are used to determine past temperatures, among other things. there are many other skeptics and deniers in the blogosphere who have demonstrated that they don’t even understand simple math, physics, or chemistry.
for overall climate science, read realclimate.org, and for good explanations of the math and computer modeling used, read tamino.wordpress.com/. neither of these sites ‘cherry picks’.
.-= last blog ..Woman’s best friend’s best friend =-.
I’ve tried to be polite about this, but apparently, my opinion is not allowed here.
Hipparchia, your point might be more compelling if you used capital letters and clickable links.
I also don’t appreciate having silly assumptions made about my age, education and employment just because I don’t agree with the majority. That added nothing to the discussion.
I have enjoyed coming to this site, and reading the posts and comments, and of course, checking out the cat pictures. But after today, I’m not going to bother, if this is how it’s going to be.
Nothing personal against you, Bryan. Take care.
“I also don’t appreciate having silly assumptions made about my age, education and employment just because I don’t agree with the majority.” – SSG
Get over it, SSG. My assumption about your possible employment is based on many encounters with global climate change deniers who do, in fact, work for oil companies, as I have done occasionally myself.
I don’t know how I can say this any more gently: if you are going to ignore the bulk of the scientific evidence in favor of the sliver of opinion that denies global climate change, you’re going to need a lot thicker skin than you apparently have.
1. The post is clearly labeled Global Climate Change.
2. The post notes that if you live in certain areas you will perceive this as warming, but it can also induce cooling, as Jams noted.
3. Although I know a good deal about the people who visit this site, I do not air that information for any reason. People only know what the individual shares, and no more.
4. The people writing in support of the current theory of Global Climate change all have personal experience with the effects of the process. Some have academic credentials in associated areas, all are educated people in diverse fields.
5. Anyone can say what they want here, but they are personally responsible for it. There are limits, but only one person has ever found that limit.
6. I would suggest that if someone chooses to deny climate change they not rely on a site belonging to Philip Atkinson, best known for suggestion that democracy be eliminated in the United States, and George W. Bush be appointed President for Life. Further, an interview published in an entity belonging to Lyndon LaRouche by a man known to believe that there is scientific evidence for dowsing is unlikely to be taken seriously by someone who has visited Inuit villages that are having to relocate because of rising sea levels, or buys groceries at a supermarket with members of a Civil Engineering Squadron that just returned from an island in the Indian Ocean after building levees to protect AF facilities from the rising ocean.
7. There is a qualitative difference between incredulity and attacks.
8. I posted a link to explain the Global Cooling phenomena, so that people would understand the origin. I used the Wikipedia link, because it was more of a media story than a scientific debate. With the notable exception of the BBC, most of the media does a terrible job reporting on science. Unfortunately the best and most recent information is found in journals, and they are almost uniformly expensive subscriptions that I wouldn’t expect anyone to willingly pay.
SSG has started me thinking about the nature of this site, its host and its regulars, and I believe I can generalize without talking about the details of individuals’ lives, histories or viewpoints.
Most of us are in the second half of a usual human lifespan. Most have, or have had, careers in science, technology, or both. While many of us have compatible political views, few (only one that I can think of) are ideologically obsessive. All of us… yes, I think I can say all of us… have a good understanding not only of the scientific method taught in school, but also of the realities of the practice of science day-to-day in the lab, the classroom, the industrial plant, etc.
But it’s our differences that lead me to hang out here every day. I do not have deep knowledge of physics, chemistry and various earth sciences… but at least one among us does. That person may or may not have spent more than three decades providing technological support to scientific projects in fields as diverse as advanced chemical research, medicine and space flight… but I have. Neither of us may have lived on most of Earth’s continents in most of Earth’s climates, speaking, reading, writing and translating many of the human languages on the planet, one of them with a subtlety and depth rare in a non-native speaker… but at least one among us has done just that. At least two of us, not including me, have deep knowledge of international relations, military matters and intelligence issues. Two of us (that I know of) have been professional musicians in our lives. One of us is capable of the most godawful puns and doggerel. And so on, and so forth. And every blessed one of us has an urge to share his or her knowledge.
In other words, Why Now? is very nearly the perfect environment in which to learn… not from our “betters” (heh)… but from our peers. Why any thinking, feeling person would wish to depart a community like this is utterly beyond me.
Thanks, Bryan, for hosting. Thanks to the rest of you for your presence and involvement. I intend to stick around.
.-= last blog ..Friday Cell Phone Cat Blogging =-.
Agree Steve & Bryan. And I’ve worked for Oil Companies myself (particularly ARAMCO), and Pharma coy’s (such as Glaxo-Smith-Kline-Welcome) and know exactly how devious & profit-motivated they are.
One of the most difficult things for a human to do is admit when one discovers one is wrong, or that they have been conned by disingenuous snake-oil type people. Most of the regulars here (including myself) have, at some point since I began coming here, admitted mistakes or errors in beliefs. It’s one of the reasons I like it here. As Steve said above, it’s a great environment to learn, and I have. I never have, and never will, believe or pretend I *know it all*. I know what I’ve spent the past several decades learning, but that’s a drop in an ocean. Some of what I leaned I’ve discovered was wrong (for whatever of several possible reasons), and I’m sure I’ll discover more along my road.
I was once a musician Steve, though I know many don’t consider a mere *drummer* to be a musician! 😉 Though… I did learn to despise the recorder at an early age! 😀 Many years later, I heard a true musician play the recorder, which led me to a recital by an accomplished musician who really knew how to play the instrument (she had a array of different recorders, that I had no idea existed), and I enjoyed it thoroughly! I suppose that’s an example of my being wrong, and learning an important truth. Some might consider that a trivial example, *shrug* I don’t. 🙂
I know people all over the World, including a senior meteorologist/climatologist at CSIRO that I know I can trust, because he has proven beyond doubt that he can be trusted over several decades. I think I’ll continue to believe them SSG if you don’t mind. 🙂
I’m sorry you feel the way you say you do. It’s your loss however.
I’m still amazed that there are people, including seemingly intelligent people, who believe in Scientology! It boggles the mind, truly! 😀
Of course, there are several special-interest, and self-interest groups (such as The Heartland Institute, a libertarian/conservative front) who are generating much noise and wasted energy *proving* that climate change is garbage. At least until someone actually knowledgeable debunks their superficial claims, as happens often. 🙂
These groups have one thing in common, they generate so much noise that they try simply to overwhelm any and all *facts* on any subject they care to want destroyed for the simple objective of furthering their own selfish agenda’s. We used to call it, propaganda.
here’s a list of links to sites that aim to retard the noise pollution generated by the bogus Heartland Institute:
Sourcewatch: The Heartland Institute
What if you held a conference, and no (real) scientists came?
Quote taken from “What if you held a conference, and no (real) scientists came?” — Jan 2008:
ummm… yeah.. oopsie 😳 🙄 But… what else can be expected from a bunch of lying wingnuts. *shrug*
(NB. More links to follow! Don’t wanna be anti-spammed!)
Four hundred skeptics? Try 19!
Exposed: Fake List of 500 global warming skeptics scientist
Heartland Institute Spreads FUD & Lies About Global Warming
Heartland Institute deniers denied by ‘U’ profs
Top Scientists Demand Names Removed From Heartland’s Climate List
that should (hopefully) do… 😉
Drummers? not musicians? heh. Kryten, FAIK, IRL, you may be that fellow who drums for Mike Nock on his Naxos Jazz CDs; there’s no question he’s a real musician!
.-= last blog ..Friday Cell Phone Cat Blogging =-.
Without drummers and bass players it would be damn hard for most of us to dance. Somebody has to keep time, even if it’s 5-4, that’s what the classic Brubeck jazz album Time Out was all about. For centuries you couldn’t really have a battle if you didn’t have some drummers. Besides, the drummers always owned the van, and you can’t have a band without a van.
Global Climate Change, Evolution, and most other elements of science today are “theories”, which means they are constantly being refined by challenges, but the underlying hypothesis of each is holding firm – this is how things work generally, now let’s get into the specifics of the mechanisms. The specifics are changing, as some things require other things to happen at the same time, or the results are different. So you change the hypothesis and run more experiments. That’s science.
The current reality is that the 20,000-year orbit cycle and the solar activity cycle say things should be cooling. They aren’t, so something else is happening. Yesterday MSNBC reported World’s ocean temps are warmest on record. They mention 72°F water temperatures in the Atlantic on the coast of Maine. We used to chill beer in the ocean off Maine.
This is shaping up to be another 1998, when the temperature spiked, and afterwards people claimed the world was cooling because it wasn’t as hot as 1998. Obviously the El Niño is a factor, but it is hard to say if it is a cause, or an effect. We have a good one this year, just like 1998. I like them because they moderate Atlantic hurricanes, but Kryten hates them because Australian weather goes nuts. Some areas are going to get “better” weather, others will get “worse”, but no one is getting “normal” weather, which is why this is Climate Change.
100-year floods every decade isn’t normal. Tropical waves becoming major hurricanes over a weekend isn’t normal. Fairbanks, Alaska having higher temperatures than Fort Walton Beach, Florida in December isn’t normal. Sled dogs dying of heat stroke during the Iditarod isn’t normal. All of that was posted on this blog in the last 18 months.
I can understand that people who aren’t affected don’t care about the issue, even though I care about a lot of issues that don’t personally affect me. I don’t understand when they deny there is a problem, when the evidence is everywhere.
I had a great great uncle who didn’t believe in traffic lights or speed limits. That cost him an awful lot of money during the nearly 70 years he drove a car, because the judges did.
In other words, Why Now? is very nearly the perfect environment in which to learn… not from our “betters” (heh)… but from our peers.
me, i just hang out here for the godawful puns. 😈
Fairbanks, Alaska having higher temperatures than Fort Walton Beach, Florida in December isn’t normal.
yeah, that’s been the scariest one so far.
.-= last blog ..Woman’s best friend’s best friend =-.
as for the water witching, i don’t know about naturally-occurring water, but it works well for underground utility lines. ask me how i know this.
.-= last blog ..Woman’s best friend’s best friend =-.
I tend to believe in galvanometers and a pulse generator when I look for buried lines. Not as flashy, but it works. Of course you don’t need the pulse generator for electric lines.
I know you want to tell, so go ahead: How do you know this?
So you’re saying that finding buried lines is so easy that anybody with a pulse can do it?
.-= last blog ..Friday Cell Phone Cat Blogging =-.
So you’re saying that finding buried lines is so easy that anybody with a pulse can do it?
ackshully, that’s about all it takes. 🙂 i’ve taught several people how to do this, almost all of whom were entirely skeptical at first.
i’ve used the instruments, and they work well. too well sometimes, since sometimes the signal you want to follow wants to run down that line [phone cable maybe], instead of this line [water pipe maybe] and you can follow what you thought was a phone line and end up at an electrical box.
the deal with dowsing is that you can’t [or *i* can’t, at least] follow a line, cable, or pipeline, because your wires rotate [i’ve never tried a pendulum, or a y-shaped stick, just the bent wires] when you cross a line perpendicular to the direction the line is running. i’ve found the dowsing to be useful if i think the signal has jumped from what i’m supposed to be following to another line.
mostly it’s just a fun trick to wow other people with though.
Trust me… If you’d heard me play drums, you might agree! 😉 😆 Actually… I wasn’t too bad I was told by a drummer from a locally famous band. I did enjoy it, but I was into weightlifting at that time (late teens), and I dislocated my shoulder and sprained my wrist badly. Tends to put one off drumming for quite some time, not to mention weightlifting! 😀 I ended up in Electronics because I got a job in a studio as an apprentice sound/recording engineer, and discovered I was good at it and enjoyed it (except for the *artists* for the most part! G*d… some were just bloody terrible! I swear some couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket, and don’t even think about pitch or harmony!) If you ever wonder why a recorded band or singer doesn’t do concerts, it will usually be because the studio engineer makes them sound way better than they actually are! 😉
For me, it’s a toss up between Steve & hipparchia for the awful puns award! 😛 😈 Though… I might admit to being a runner-up! 😆
So Ms Smart-pants… do tell! 😛 😉
LOL We replied at the same time, and you already answered! 😉
talk about toss ups and cross ups! we posted at the same time, kryten. probably because of my mad water witching skillz.
i have to bow to the ydd on the mad bad pun skillz — he’s the tops.
.-= last blog ..Fortunately, =-.
jinx!
[grrrrrrr, the spam catcher hates me]
.-= last blog ..Fortunately, =-.
Don’t feel singled out hipparchia… the damned thing hates me also! 😉 😆
misery loves company! 🙁 😉
.-= last blog ..Fortunately, =-.
Actually, the easiest way to find lines around here is to have a new telephone installed. The contractors who do it mange to cut all of them when they run a Ditchwitch to install a new line. It’s like they think all of the little flags and fluorescent paint on the lawn indicate where they should go.
They get upset when you don’t do it and tell them experience shows that you lose fewer utilities if you don’t mark them, than when you do.
Wow… I don’t stop by for a few days and I missed an entire conversation on climate change… and more.
We are having absolutely bizzare weather in Chicago. It’s like we’ve had one long Spring season. No heat, little humidity, not too many bugs. No a/c needed. Most people seem happy about it. Unless they are trying to grow zucchini plants that is.
According to the map you have had cooler than normal weather, as you report. I was reading about California and they are worried about the opposite problem, as they may not get enough cold weather for their fruit and nut orchards.
I can’t imagine not having more zucchini than any person can deal with up in your area. I have an uncle in Ohio, and before his health turned for the worse, he always had a garden, and would ship a box of zucchini South in the years he didn’t come down to see the Gulf and bring a trunk load with him.
The real problem is that you can’t plan, because you have no idea what the new normal will be like.
Things went a little weird on this thread as someone decided to take things personally. It’s a problem with written communication among people who don’t know each other well, you can’t determine when someone is kidding, or being serious.
Yeah LadyMin!! Well… It started out as a thread on Climate Change… And kinda wandered off, or as Bryan said… “…went a little weird…” but I thought wierd was normal here! 😐 😉 😛
But… It is sad really Oh well. *shrug*
A little weird is ok … but yeah, I know what you mean. That seems to happen from time to time when people take things personally that aren’t meant to be taken that way.
In a normal year with lots of sunshine and hot days, I have more zucchini than I know what to do with. I’m only getting a few a week so no one is getting gifts of zucchini this year. On the other hand, it’s been a wonderful year for lettuce.
You know how sad I am about zucchini not growing!! 😛 😈
Worse than a toxic weed IMHO! Hmmph!
I baked pumpkin bread and some Aussie bush tucker scones yesterday! 😛 Yummm!
Ya know… we have some really good naturally grown native foods here in Aus, but stoopid people prefer to waste money trying to grow stuff that doesn’t like growing here and stoopid people will pay ridiculous prices to eat it!
People are stoopid everywhere! :\
*sigh*
Oh… I also made my own Pizza! 😉 Anyone want the recipe? I got a 10 from my housemate for it! LOL (Yes, it’s a family recipe). 😉
Is this considered ‘spamming’ Bryan? 😉 😈 😀
Yeah… I’m in a weird mood! I’m trying to avoid homework for this bloody course I got conned into! 😐 I’m getting too old for this cr*p!
mmmmmmm… pumpkin bread! yes, more recipes! i’d love to know what your version of pumpkin bread is, and pizzas are always popular at chez hipparchia.
.-= last blog ..Fortunately, =-.
OK h! 🙂 I was planning to post them actually. But I *REALLY* do have to do homework! 🙁 Got an assignment due tues. (Sun afternoon here now). Might take me a day or so to get recipe’s organised and checked to post. 🙂
Actually, the graphic was about showing people why they should be calling it Change, not Warming, because some places will probably get cooler, and to see if I could figure out why we have had such an unusual hurricane season. [insert Burns “Mouse” quote here]
Kryten, pizza is always appreciated, but so is zucchini bread, if I could ever get my aunt to reveal her recipe. There is anise involved, as well as the standard pumpkin spices, but I don’t know the source or when it is introduce, although I suspect in the preparation of the zucchini. It may simply be a liqueur. If I had the recipe I would grow the zucchini, but only from seeds of a zucchini grown by the Italians in Rochester, another group that rarely shares recipes.
The vegetables from people’s gardens always taste better than anything you can buy down here.
Yeah. 🙂 I was chatting with LadyMin on IM while we were posting comments, and I (reluctantly) admitted that Zucchini is OK in bread, and also minestrone (because it totally dissolves and the yucky taste is buried!) LOL Though… I did also say I’d never admit it! 😉 Never say ‘never’! 😉
We bought a Pizza baking stone and cutter kit (also had a stainless steel rack to place the hot stone on out of the oven to cut the pizza). It’s 12″ diameter I think. Makes the pizza base nice and crispy! I hate doughy pizza’s! Yuck! Made a huge difference! Just have to put the stone in the oven for 15 min’s to heat up before putting the pizza on it. You should be able to find something similar there. I’m pretty sure it was made in China (where else?) Cost about $12. We also use a bread machine to make the dough, and have a fan-forced convection electric oven that really helps it bake evenly. This new house is SOOOOOOOOO much better than the little unit I lived in the past two years! I can finally enjoy cooking again with a decent kitchen. 😆
Ok… enough procrastination for one day! Back to the homework now… *sigh*
A bread machine? How scandalous! You can’t get flour all over the kitchen if you use a bread machine, and you lose all the mystery bits that somehow find their way into the dough.
Yeah, school is a pain, but the extra paper may help.
You can’t get flour all over the kitchen if you use a bread machine,
oh yes you can.
.-= last blog ..Fortunately, =-.
I really don’t think I want to know about that one.
homework first, recipes later [but not toooo much later 😉 ]