OK, How About Syria?
The Associated Press felt compelled to report the suppositions of a political careerist Air Force General: CIA: Syria reactor could make 1-2 bombs a year:
WASHINGTON – A suspected Syrian reactor bombed by Israel had the capacity to produce enough nuclear material to fuel one to two weapons a year, CIA Director Michael Hayden said on Monday.
Hayden said the plutonium reactor was within weeks or months of completion when it was destroyed in an air strike last September 6, and within a year of entering operation it could have produced enough material for at least one weapon.
“In the course of a year after they got full up, they would have produced enough plutonium for one or two weapons,” Hayden told reporters after a speech.
I was hoping to avoid this embarrassment for the US, but they won’t let it go. Juan Cole had an informed commenter explain some of the things that would have to be found, including chunks of graphite and specialized metal alloys that are used in the British Magnox design, that North Korea was supposedly helping Syria to build. The commenter wonders why no one noticed Syria importing large quantities of the refined graphite needed for this design, if they were building a reactor. He also feels that the IAEA will be looking for the remnants of the graphite and the special alloys that would be present in the surrounding area if a Magnox reactor within weeks or months of completion had been bombed.
Wikipedia has an article on the North Korean Research Center and a picture of the 5 MWe reactor with people around so that you can get an idea of how big the reactor really is.
This design uses CO2 cooling, so the pumping station was totally irrelevant, and Badtux has already traced the water main from the pump to a water treatment plant up the hill. The water and cooling towers at the Korean plant are part of the power generation system, rather than the reactor itself. It would be a bit odd for them to build a reactor that was capable of being used to generate power as well as plutonium, and not include the generation system, It would mean having to rely on generators to operate the reactor and ancillary equipment, but everything about this is odd.
19 comments
Don’t you just get tired of all this garbage? Really? This is why I decided to stop blogging at LM when tas was thinking of retiring for similar reasons.
Same old… yadda.
If people weren’t dying as a result of this crap it wouldn’t matter.
All that had to happen was a call to the IAEA for an investigation. There was no need to blow anything up, or violate another country’s airspace. This was just thuggery.
following badtux’s description of what a water line looks like in the desert, you can trace another one from the water treatment plant to just north of the town that’s downstream of the nukular plant.
There was no need to blow anything up, or violate another country’s airspace. This was just thuggery.
Yes. There was no sane, rational need as far as any sane, rational person can see. I am sure that it was also illegal. But again… what’s new about that?
They only thing that actually surprises me is that they didn’t carpet bomb the town as well. Wonders never cease…
So, how’s everyone liking this brave new World? The one where we are all safe from this kind of thing?
I’m getting really sick of the automatic assumption of the US government that Israel can do no wrong. It’s about time we had someone in charge who lets the Israelis face the consequences of their antisocial behavior. A few abstentions in the UN Security Council might convince the Israelis that they have to follow the same rules as everyone else.
Israel as we all know, have never in the course of thousands of years, followed any rules but their own. Perhaps the Bushmorons love them so much because they are a shining example of their own deep longing for a society in which everyone has to follow their rules and they are free to to be gods above all rules and laws. I guess its a substitute for the Bushlovers for penis envy. I suspect many are (psychologically at least) emasculated. Don’t you find it curious that the Bushloving women seem to have more testosterone then the males? 🙂 It will make a fascinating study in the decades to come, assuming we survive the coming years of course. 🙂
Then of course there are the real-world practicalities. the MIC would never allow any Government to interfere with their best trading partner, and the source of much of their development… oh, I’m not supposed to mention that Israel helps design and/or develop a lot of US high-tech weaponry, am I? Oops! Oh, and never forget that Israel knows, and can prove, where the USA has stashed a LOT of skeletons and bodies over the decades also. Wouldn’t do for any of that to suddenly *leak* out! LOL
As always… “It’s about the money, stupid!” 😉 😀
The real problem is that the US is enabling a minority in the country to run things. The moderate voices never get heard in the US, only the Likud and the other right-wing crazies. There are a lot of Israelis who would really love to live in peace, but they can’t get any traction, because few in the US realize how many there are.
We have too many side deals with Israelis of very dubious ethics. They sell weapons to those who oppose the US without ever suffering consequences because they also act as a cut-out for our own dubious deals.
Kryten, what you are saying requires a response, but I do not know if you meant to say something other than I understood. You are making an accusation upon the tribe of Israel now? Because that is a very different thing from the modern state of Israel.
It is true that Jews have different traditions than Christians. So we have our own rules, in that sense.
Michael, that’s an historical reference to the fact that the Jewish people have maintained their own set of laws without regard to the culture in which they are located. While many are religious in nature, there are some things that have secular purposes, but do not vary. That has led to them being forced into certain professions and excluded from others without the prejudice of local laws being taken into consideration.
For example, investigating the murder of an observant Jew [or Muslim] is complicated by their burial laws which oppose an autopsy and require speedy burial.
The legal system of Israel is based on their religion, unlike the Western systems.
Israel politicians use this to the detriment of non-Jews whenever it suits them, even if the law doesn’t actually address an issue. Certain parties base all of their platform on religious considerations that tend to block any argument.
This isn’t new and it is a major impediment to opposing the worst of Israeli policies. Most people aren’t well enough grounded in Jewish law to point out where the policies are wrong, and not supported by the law.
The West followed a different path, and has attempted for a very long time to separate the religious and the secular, there is no major move to do that in Israel, which is a point of conflict between some American Jews and Israel.
Bryan, the history of the Jews is not separate from the West, but intertwined. I maintain that the modern state of Israel is a different entity from the Jewish people.
You are free to believe whatever you wish, Michael, but being forced into isolation within a larger population, and subjected to random fits of violence is not the mark of integration in a society. The state of Israel represents a segment of the Jewish people who all share a common history, religion, and language.
Sorry for the delay in responding Michael. Timezones are a pain! 😉
I have nothing against the Jewish people, and not even against Israeli’s as such, I even know a couple I chat with occasionally who live in Israel (one in the Army) and hate what’s happening. I guess I see the modern day Israel as similar to the current day America. Both are controlled by a very small minority with their own private agenda’s that do not bode well for the World and Peace on Earth! I (and many others) simply look at what they do! We don’t care what either nation says any more. As far as *we* out here are concerned, neither *Nation* can be trusted to be honest about anything. However, as I said in another comment, we feel sorry for the people who just want to live their lives in Peace and get on with their lives but have to live within a system that won’t allow them to do so! Both Nations are controlled by fear, and in both cases, it’s mostly contrived.
I am not anti-simetic, or anti-Muslim, or anti-atheist, or anti-Christian, or… etc, etc! I am very much anti-bullshit! And there is FAR too much of that in the World today!
Historically, the Nation of Israel is as guilty as any other Nation (including Christian Nations) of causing trouble and pain in the World. This is an argument as old as time! I and I surely do not propose or attempt to settle it here. 🙂
Every Nation, no matter if American, Israel, Australia, England, China, etc, has it’s good and bad. Sometimes the bad takes control. We recently got rid of our bad and have much work to do in fixing the damage caused. I think American and Israel now need to clean their houses and let the World get on with their own lives! It seems that neither the USA or Israel (as with the UK until recently), and China and Russia can stop interfering in the affairs of others, and then cry foul when it bites them in the ass! Oh yes, the Nations talk a good load of reasons and rationalizations for interfering, but it’s all bullshit! It’s all driven by their own irrational fears and power and control! I spent time in the Intelligence community, and I saw LOT of the truth behind the scenes about what many Nations did and why… All the “you scratch my back and I’ll kiss your ass” deals, Al the “You help us deal with this little two-bit nation here, and we’ll help you out when you need it” BS. My crew spent so much time watching all the crazy politicians of all nations doing back room deals, we had no time to worry about what some little terrorist group was up to! We would see an American and an Israeli politician get together for a chat, and then some time later, something would come up for a vote in the UN affecting Israel in some way, and see America vote (or veto a vote) in Israels favor, and then later, Israel would do some favor for America. Happened all the time, and with several Nations. Many nations seem to think that Australia is a great, safe place for all the covert chats! Idiots.
I can’t stand hypocrisies no matter what their forms or reasons. The minute ANY Nation (or group of people) begins to believe they are above all others, or better than any other, that is the end of Peace in the World! I believe it’s WAY past time to end all that bullshit! I know I’ve had enough of it!
You reap what you sow. Or if you prefer, karma can be a bitch!
And thanks Bryan for your comments. 🙂
Cheers!
I am in correspondence with certain people inside Israel and they pretty much verify what Bryan has said about the role of Judaic law in the governance of the state of Israel. There is no concept of a separation between Judaic law and Israeli law in Israel, any more than there is a concept of a separation between Islamic law and Iranian law in Iran, and as in Iran, it is the ultra-orthodox radicals who are responsible for interpreting the law in a way that can be placed into the Israeli lawbooks. Women who wear pants can be spit upon and harassed by the black robes, people who don’t obey the Sabbath can be beaten with walking sticks by the black robes, and the Israeli police shrug and say there is nothing they can do because the black robes are the religious scholars are the law. And when the moderates try to bring the concept of a separation between religious law and secular law to Israel, they are berated by the black robes and told, “you are talking Western civilization and we are not Western, we are Jewish, go back to [insert original country of origin] if you don’t like how we run Israel” (note — they say this even to native-born Israelis, everybody seems to know where your parents or grandparents or great-grandparents came from in Israel because it is a very small country that is smaller than New York City in population, and of course Israel is a land of immigrants since there were very few Jews in Palestine in 1900 and most of the Arab population was ethnically cleansed in 1948).
So anyhow, the only law that Israel feels bound by is Judaic law. Which, if you remember, includes that “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” thingy. Judaic law is *not* Christian law, and our notions of Christian charity are not part of Judaic law. Israel does not feel bound by international law because international law is not founded upon the principles of Judaism, much as I suspect the Iranians don’t feel bound by international law because international law is not founded upon the principle of Islam. And for Israel, it’s not just any Judaism that counts. It is the Orthodox and Ultra-orthodox Judaism that counts. Reform and Conservative Jews need not apply.
– Badtux the Religiously-tired Penguin
PS – as for the notion that this was a nuclear reactor, Airhead Hayden can kiss my fine-feathered ass. All satellite evidence supports the notion that this was an equipment building associated with the water treatment plant uphill from the building, and maybe some munitions were stored there also simply because the Syrians stash munitions all over the place much the same way Saddam did (and for much the same reason) — maybe. A nuclear reactor? Yeah right, pull the other flipper. There just isn’t enough supporting buildings at that site for that, not to mention *no security* — no fences, no security perimeter, no gates, no SAM installation to shoot down attacking aircraft, nada. You can bet that any nuclear facility in Syria would be guarded with pretty much everything Syria had capable of shooting down attackers. The fact that there’s no such installations visible anywhere near this facility… well, that pretty much says the story all by itself.
– Badtux the Observant Penguin
Badtux, you are mistaken. The eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth is Babylonian law, code of Hammurabi stuff.
Michael, while it is, indeed, found in the Code of Hammurabi it is also found in the Old Testament:
Deuteronomy 19:21 “And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
That is the fifth book and included in the Torah.
This is the penalty for bearing false witness, and is meant in somewhat allegorical form. It is not the same thing as Hammurabi’s code.
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth; at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be establishment
16 If an unrighteous witness rise up against any man to bear perverted witness against him;
17 then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before HaShem, before the priests and the judges that shall be in those days.
18 And the judges shall inquire diligently; and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 then shall ye do unto him, as he had purposed to do unto his brother; so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee.
20 And those that remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil in the midst of thee.
21 And thine eye shall not pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
To understand this correctly, this is part of a sermon by Moses, and it is controlling precedent. 🙂