Who’s The Threat?

by Bryan

18 comments

1 hipparchia { 10.07.09 at 11:39 pm }

If you are North Korea and dying is not a big concern, and you intend to set it off in a fixed location, things can be done quickly. If you are sane, it takes a lot longer.

I think that Turkana at The Left Coaster pinpoints the real problem:

The bottom line? Even this extremist Iranian regime is open to negotiation. Which makes it more sane than our own Republican Party…

well, gee, when y’all put it like that, looks like the republicans are less sane than north korea. that’s going some.

i had hopes for a little while there, when we escalated things in afghanistan and pakistan, that iran was off the menu after all. silly me. the latest thing i saw in the ny times [only read the headline, not the article] was something about saudi arabia is now afraid of being nuked by iran. gah.

2 Bryan { 10.08.09 at 12:07 am }

What the Saudi royals are really concerned about is that all of their oil is in the part of the kingdom dominated by Shi’ia, so they can’t do anything about Iran without risking their lifestyle. If you look at the Persian Gulf, all of the oil is in areas where the population is majority Shi’ia. Iran doesn’t need nukes, just a few fatwas.

The neocons have been spreading the rumor that the Saudis are in favor of the Israelis bombing Iran. That would be a major disaster for the Saudis, who are still trying to recover from the fact that the Shrubbery managed to remove the two most effective limits on Iran, Saddam and the Taliban.

I wouldn’t be surprised to find a lot of Saudi funds being funneled to the Taliban, to re-establish that brake on Iran.

3 Kryten42 { 10.08.09 at 12:59 am }

Yeah. I’d have to agree that the GOP are DEFINITELY less sane then Little Kim on a bad day! At least KJI has some minders who see to it that he doesn’t go totally GOP on the World. It’s just pure dumb luck for us that the GOP are too stupid, shortsighted and narcissistic (and too busy fighting their own and everyone else in the USA) to be a *real* threat to the World, just a total PITA (which, without 9/11, they would have just been confined to being their usual USA PITA). Talk about opportunists! (Though… I still think there was some element of *creative opportunity* involved). *shrug*

And, so what? The Israelis are *One of US* (err… one of you–GOP/oldmoney you! Nothing to do with me-us at all!) and I’d be very happy to keep it that way! (I mean… NOT one of us). 😉

4 Badtux { 10.08.09 at 11:14 am }

Obligatory Israeli apologist posting in 3…2….1…. huh. Guess I’ll have to do it for them:

“But Israel is surrounded by enemies that want to attack it and drive it into the sea!”

Like Egypt, which has had a peace treaty with Israel for 30 years and has displayed absolutely no hostility towards Israel in all that time? Or Lebanon, whose tiny army is equipped with WWII surplus and relies on Toyota trucks pulling old WWII artillery for their most potent weapons? Or Jordan, which has been a secret ally of Israel ever since they discovered they had a common enemy in the PLO, even to the point where Israeli jets helped Jordan fight off a Syrian invasion? Oh, let’s not forget Syria, which is now run by an eye doctor who is about as war-like as eye-doctors usually are (i.e., at most he might tell you, “sit still and look through the eyepiece!” in a stern voice) and whose army is mainly cannon fodder kept on the rosters because otherwise crippling unemployment compounded by millions of Iraqi refugees would result in mass starvation, who has no functioning tanks or fighter jets, whose response to the latest Israeli outrage (the bombing of a water pumping station that Israel insisted was a nuclear weapons site) was to basically shrug and say, “eh, yids, what can you do?”?

The only real enemies Israel has are ones of its own making — non-state actors created by the racist way they treat non-Jews both inside Israel and in areas they occupy — none of whom require anything near the amount of firepower that Israel has in order to properly deal with them.But say that and you’re automatically conspiring to exterminate Jews or some shit like that. WTF?!
.-= last blog ..Thursday morning music blogging =-.

5 Bryan { 10.08.09 at 2:37 pm }

My, my, Mr. Duff, you chosen to go all out Colonel Blimp on us. What a surprise – the Iranian/Persian people control the Persian Gulf by virtue of living there for thousands of years. How sneaking and underhanded of them to stay in one place all this time.

They also have the audacity to own the land from which the oil the West wants is extracted. This was obviously part of some secret plot.

Not attacking anyone for centuries is apparently part of the cunning plan to lure the West into believing that they won’t attack anyone.

Israel is a threat to peace and stability, and has shown itself to be totally untrustworthy. It has the weapons and is currently led by whackos like Avigdor Lieberman who make Ahmadinejad look like Mother Teresa. What few treaties Israel does sign, it manages to violate, and has total contempt for the rest of the world.

If you want someone to watch and worry over in the Middle East, spend some time watching Israel.

That anyone takes anything that Israel claims about Iran seriously, after the total lack of truth and accuracy in their reporting on Iraq, shows the general lack of intelligence of both kinds on the part of Western nations.

6 Kryten42 { 10.09.09 at 8:19 am }

It’s funny how people with agenda’s (and ignorant fools generally) *ALWAYS* do the whole ‘Jews’ thing when anyone sane wants to discuss Israel ( or, the State of Israel). I have a few Jewish friends here who emigrated (or, *escaped*, as they prefer it) here because almost anywhere is saner than Israel (the State of…) They still flinch (or sigh, roll eye’s etc) whenever I (or someone else they know) says something like “So… How are thing back home?” One of them once said to me “I’m a Jew. Not an Israeli!” Of course, not all Israelis are Jews. (On a side note Bryan, I think Israel would be the perfect place to send all the USA’s religious nutjobs — ours too for that matter. They’d fit right in and probably have an epiphany!) LOL

Of course, the Israelis are still pissed that the ancient Persians destroyed Jerusalem (around 614AD). That’s enough of a reason for them to use their usual puppets (USA) to (attempt) to destroy Iran (that and the fact that they believe money is power and one can never have enough of either! So claiming the oil reserves is a bonus). And before that, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon had a go and destroyed Jerusalem (some 600 years before Christ was born). The Romans also kicked in the doors a few times… Antiochus destroyed Jerusalem’s (Judaea) walls about 168 BC, they were rebuilt, then Pompey knocked them down again around 63BC… etc. So I guess the Israelis are a bit paranoid. Though, it could be said that if they just kept their big dirty noses out of everyone else’s business, other people throughout all time wouldn’t get fed up and want to destroy them. You’d think after a couple Milena, even the dumbest would have learned that lesson. 🙂 But history teaches that the Israelite’s just love to fight, cause trouble, and lie through their golden teeth! There are numerous wars between Pharisees and Sadducees, for example. 🙂 Bribery featured big on the Israli’s list of tools-of-the-trade. The Sadducees decided to get the Romans to do their dirty work and take care of the Pharasees by bribing a representative of Pompey (Pompey the Great) with 8,000kg of silver (that’s NOT a typo), and the representative agreed to make a case to get Pompey to intervene. When Pompey went to see what was going on, they gained his favor by giving him 800kg of Gold, and then tried to get their silver back by claiming the representative had extorted it from them falsely. Pompey investigated and discovered they were lying (as usual) and kicked down the walls as a lesson. Sounds pretty familiar, really. 😉 Too bad American’s (generally) don’t truly learn History. they might not make so many mistakes many made before them! 🙂

And so… History repeats. What a World^tm

7 Kryten42 { 10.09.09 at 11:09 am }

A few historical facts (not that I expect a fact to get in the way of anyone’s ignorance)… That might possible put things into some perspective (I can but hope!) 😉

Jerusalem is important to the Jews because it is Ir Ha-Kodesh (the Holy City), the City of David, the site of Solomon’s Temple, and the capital of the Israelite nation (and the Biblical Zion).

Jerusalem is important to Muslims because it is where the prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven. To the Muslims, Jerusalem is the 3rd most sacred place of Islam, after the holy sites of Mecca and Medina.

Jerusalem is important to Christians because it is where the Jesus (as a young man) impressed the sages at the Jewish Temple, where he spent the last days of his ministry, and where the Last Supper, the Crucifixion and the Resurrection all took place.

Jerusalem was originally called Urusalim (meaning ‘Foundation of Shalem’ or ‘Foundation of God’). After Urusalim was conquered by David (around 1,000 BC), David founded the Kingdom’s of Israel and Judah. Eventually, David renamed Urusalim to Jerusalem (which in Hebrew meant “City of Peace”, which proves David had a sense of humor and understood irony if nothing else!) David then chose Mt. Moriah as the site of his future great temple. However, Mt. Moriah was already considered very sacred by many. It was believed to be the site where Abraham had built the altar on which he was to sacrifice his son Isaac. It was also said to be where Jacob took some stone from the altar upon which his father Isaac was to be sacrificed. He is then said to have used this stone as a pillow where he spent the night sleeping upon the rock. When he awoke from a dream (or vision), Jacob is said to have anointed the stone pillow with oil he had received from heaven whereupon the stone sank deep into the earth to become the foundation stone of the great temple that would later be built by Solomon. This sacred site is known as Bethel, meaning “Gate or House of Heaven.”

David’s son, Solomon, created a great temple. Soon after the Temple was finished, Nebuchadrezzar II of Babylon forced the Jews into slavery or exile (or had them killed), sacked their temple (stole all it’s treasures, including it’s said, the Ark of the Covenant, a portable shrine – and the most sacred artifact of the Israelites – containing the two stone ‘Tablets of the Law’ that the prophet Moses received upon Mt. Sinai). Nebuchadrezzar then completely destroyed the temple around 586 BC.

Curiously (and very ironically), it was because of a Persian (Cyrus) who then conquered Babylon and allowed the Israelites to return to Jerusalem. What happened to the Ark, is apparently anybody’s guess. Anyway, during the next five centuries or so, following the time of Cyrus of Persia, Jerusalem was conquered by Alexander the Great, controlled by Hellenistic, Egyptian, and Seleucid empires and is said to have experienced occasional periods of freedom. 🙂 Ironically (there is a LOT of irony to be found regarding ‘Jerusalem’ and I must admit is the primary motivation for me to study it’s long and sordid history). Ironically, it was the conversion to Christianity of the Byzantine Emperor Constantine (between 306-337) and his mother’s pilgrimage to Jerusalem (Empress Helena) around 326 that became one of the city’s most peaceful and prosperous epochs! (I do love irony!) 😆

According to historical legends, Empress Helena discovered the relics of the ‘True Cross of the Crucifixion’ at the place of the Resurrection upon Mt. Calvary. Many Israli Scholars however, believe this so-called ‘finding’ of the relics to be a story fabricated for political reasons by Constantine and his mother, and that the cross relics were most probably manufactured, as were so many other relics during early and medieval Christian times. Whatever the case, Helena’s pilgrimage and Constantine’s royal support made possible the building of many Christian shrines in the city. The most important shrines was the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. This church marked the site of the Resurrection and soon became the supremely sacred place in all of Christendom. Finished about 335, the great basilica was apparently built upon the foundations of an earlier Roman shrine dedicated to the goddess Aphrodite (and yes, I find that amusing for many reasons). It was during this time of church construction that the tradition of Christian pilgrimages to Jerusalem began.

The most important pilgrimage sites were Bethlehem, were Jesus was born; Golgatha, the site of his crucifixion (and where legend says the skull of Adam is buried); the Church of the Holy Sepulchre; and the Mount of Olives, where Jesus (supposedly) ascended to heaven. The Christian glorification of Jerusalem continued until 614 when the Persians invaded the city once again, killed many of its inhabitants and destroyed numerous churches and monasteries.

After a brief period of Persian rule, the Muslim Caliph Umar conquered Jerusalem in 638, about 6 years after the death of Muhammad. Soon after his occupation, Umar cleared the Temple Mount, built a small mosque and dedicated the site to Muslim worship. The most imposing structure the Muslims found in Jerusalem was the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Nearby the Arabian conquerors undertook to build a much more spectacular edifice, the Dome of the Rock. It was not only to proclaim the supremacy of Islam, but also to ensure that Christianity would not tempt the new followers of Islam. The site chosen was the very same rock where previously had stood the Jupiter temple of the Romans and before that, the two temples of the Jews. However, there was another reason for the Muslim worship of this particular site, one more important than the political expediency of usurping another religion’s holy place. A passage in the Koran links the Prophet Muhammad with Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. That passage, the seventeenth Sura, entitled ‘The Night Journey’, relates that Muhammad was carried by night ‘from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs…’ Muslim belief identifies the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem (the Islamic name for Jerusalem is actually al-Kuds, meaning the Holy City).

At this most important site, known in Arabic as ‘Haram al Sharif’, the 9th Caliph Abd al-Malik, built the great Dome of the Rock between 687 and 691. Besides its association with the ‘Night Journey’ of Muhammad, Jerusalem was also chosen as the site of this first great work of Islamic architecture for political reasons. BTW, the Dome of the Rock is often incorrectly called the ‘Mosque of Umar’, especially by Israeli’s (mostly to depreciate it’s importance to Muslims to the rest of the World). A Mosque is a place for public worship. This was a a mashhad, an important shrine for pilgrims. It was designed by great Byzantine architects engaged by the Caliph, the Dome of the Rock was truly the greatest monumental building in early Islamic history and remains today one of the most amazing examples of creative genius that humanity has ever produced in my, and many others, opinion. The Caliph certainly got what he paid for! 🙂

Now, interestingly, the Muslims who controlled Jerusalem before and during the Dome’s construction period tolerated Christianity and Judaism, and allowed pilgrims of both religions to freely visit the Holy City. This era of peaceful coexistence ended in 969 however, when control of the city passed to the Fatimid caliphs of Egypt (a radical and somewhat intolerant Shiite sect) who systematically destroyed all the synagogues and churches. In 1071 the Seljuk Turks defeated the Byzantines, displaced the Egyptians as masters of the Holy Land, and closed the long established pilgrimage routes. The prohibition of Christian pilgrimage by these less tolerant Muslim rulers angered Western Europe and became a contributing cause of the Crusades, a series of invasions that culminated in the capture of Jerusalem in 1099.

From 1118 to 1127 a group of nine Frenchmen known as the original Knights Templars excavated beneath the El-Aqsa mosque on the site of the old Temple of Jerusalem. According to legend, they retrieved a vast wealth of gold bullion, hidden treasures and it’s said that they even found the Ark of the Covenant. This Christian Kingdom lasted almost 90 years. The ‘Dome of the Rock’ was converted to a Christian shrine and named ‘Templum Domini’ (meaning Temple of the Lord), the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was rebuilt, and hospices and monasteries were founded. The city was once again captured by the Muslims in 1187 and ruled by the Mamlukes from the 13th to 15th centuries (except for the brief periods of Christian control during 1229-1239 and 1240-1244). Then ruled the Turks until the 19th century. The Jews, who had been barred by the Christian crusaders, returned from the 13th century onward, by the middle of the 19th century about half the city’s population was Jewish. It was only recently in 1980 that Jerusalem was officially made the capital of Israel.

Of course, these are only brief highlights. And I leave it to anyone who cares to draw their on conclusions! (Why should I do all the work!) 😆

8 Bryan { 10.09.09 at 4:42 pm }

Israel is a country, not a religion. Politicians in Israel want to equate the two, but I’m not buying it. There is nothing in Jewish tradition that says stealing from your neighbor is a good idea.

Under Jewish tradition both Avigdor Lieberman, the whacko foreign minister of Israel, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the whacko president of Iran, are Jews, but Lieberman was born and raised in the secular Soviet Union, and Ahmadinejad’s father converted to Islam after moving to Tehran when he was a child. Both have taken the path of fanaticism in their embrace of their newly discovered piety.

Israel has been stealing land and water from the Palestinians since it was founded, and has been trying to turn the desert into the central Polish Plain. They are destroying the land in the process.

Iran has been trying to implement Plato’s concept of the philosopher king, with predictable results.

Both have allowed a small minority of religious whackos to dictate the lives of millions who couldn’t care less. When religion and government are not kept separate, religion always suffers, and the resulting government is not very effective.

The religious angle in the Mideast is just an excuse on both sides to do what people who lust after political power want. Jewish communities have existed longer in Iran, than in Israel, and they are still there. There were Jews living in Iran before the birth of Christ or Mohammad, and they don’t seem ready to leave.

This is about Israel the nation state, which has been a rogue almost since its founding. Paranoia is the technically correct term for them, because there is no rational basis for the fears whipped up by their governments to cover the blatant land grabs and colonizing the property of others.

I have not been a supporter of Israel since they attacked a clearly marked US Naval vessel in international waters in 1967, and the multiple arrests and convictions of Israeli spies in the US have confirmed my low opinion of them.

I see no reason for the continued US support of the governments of Israel, including the expenditure of tax dollars, when we have a very solid and effective ally in the area, Turkey.

9 Bryan { 10.10.09 at 12:34 pm }

Kryten and I have both had to deal with the “problems” of the Israelis throughout the world for our governments, and we both mean one and only thing when we talk about Israel. It is about governments, and the policies of governments.

You, Mr. Duff, and apologists like you, keep trying to make this about religion to justify the crimes of a rapacious country that continues to murder the innocent and steal resources. It is the policy of the Israeli government to make this about religion, to deflect the criticism of their actions. Israel is controlled by the same money-grubbing, power hungry politicians that infest governments around the world. This class also rises to the top of most religious organizations. Money is power because it allows you to buy the people who control the power.

10 Bryan { 10.10.09 at 2:24 pm }

You are the only one who has written “hooked nosed”, and most of the rest are in historical accounts of the era in question, with the Sadducees and Pharisees not coming out looking very good in the Gospels, which are about 2000 years old.

The US-Israeli conflict started in 1967 with the attack on the USS Liberty in international waters by the Israelis and has continued clandestinely since, with occasional Israeli agents being sent to prison. Just because the US doesn’t respond, doesn’t make it less of a conflict.

Mindless support in the US government based on campaign contributions by AIPAC may hide the reality, but money is at the root. There is no strategic US interest served by the seemingly unquestioning support of Israel, so it must the campaign contributions to Congress.

11 Kryten42 { 10.11.09 at 1:09 am }

Thanks Bryan. 🙂 And it’s OK really. 🙂 I didn’t post all that for Homer’s edification (Simpson… Ya know… Duff. Sorry, but the image is simply firmly stuck in my mind whenever I see that name now.) Ahem… I posted it for anyone who is genuinely interested in the History, and has the intelligence to put current events into an accurate perspective. 🙂

I once had a *superior* who had a penchant for ‘reading between the lines’! After a couple time-consuming question/answer 7 clarification sessions, I began prefacing my reports with:

“This report is written with careful consideration of the English Language used, and of the structure of the words, sentences and paragraphs contained herein. Whilst some minor details and preliminary information and background information that are readily available from other appropriate documents and reports may be absent, there are no hidden meaning, no ‘reading between the lines’, no ‘wink, wink, nudge, nudge’. This document is a work of precise and accurate detail using only facts which have been rigorously checked for accuracy. The author and contributors try, with great care, to avoid assumptions and suppositions, but where these must be made, they are so noted and MEAN that they are just that! Anything that cannot be independently verified is not used in this document. If the meaning is not in black ink upon these pages, it doesn’t exist!”

My immediate boss called me after I issued that report (on certain events in the ME at the time in fact), and told me that “‘so-and-so’ called an complained that I was attacking him and every knew that comment in the preface of my report was aimed at him specifically. Is that true?” To which I dutifully replied “Of course not sir!” and he said “That’s what I thought. Good work. Continue on.” and gave me a big smile (I of course didn’t return that smile. One doesn’t of course.” 😉 Thankfully… the PITA was moved elsewhere far away from my department! People like that don’t belong in that job! They are far too dangerous, to everyone. Sadly, there are far too many people like that. Which is one of the reasons I got out of that line of work. I’m certain you understand Bryan. Sad, isn’t it?

In my work in the ME, Asia, Europe and even the USA, people might be amazed at how often some Israeli group (either Gov sanctioned or not) was behind or involved in some trouble. The Mossad (and even Shabak) were behind some atrocious trouble causing work (including, I have been led to believe, the attack on the USS Liberty, and other attacks… of which there have in fact been many, against US interests. Most simply not as obvious as the Liberty attack). The USA isn’t the only nation that has covers op’s teams causing trouble around the World. 🙂 They probably leaned from Israel actually. I know we did. 😆

Some people just love to find hidden meanings, like those people who play The Beatles Abby Road record backwards! 😆 They are a constant source of amusement. There is a difference between being paranoid because of facts and knowledge, and being paranoid because of fiction. 🙂

You and I and some others here Bryan, *know* from experience and facts that there are *bastards out there to get us*, and why that is so! We have no need to invent ambiguities and fictional events or characters. The are more than enough real ones out there to be concerned about! 🙂

Though… I do admit to occasionally throwing out a fictional bone now and then for a laugh to watch the paranoid ignoramuses howl at the moon! 😉 😀 but, not in the case above.

For the record, I thoroughly suspect anyone and everyone who uses religion to explain events, or as accusations. All who decry “You are an anti-Semite!” (or some such) rather than answer the charge with any facts, are highly suspect. History teaches with a high-degree of accuracy, that such people are not motivated by religion, but by politics and personal agenda’s. Either that, or they are just moronic fools. And there are many of both.

12 Kryten42 { 10.11.09 at 1:33 am }

Oh… I should have mentioned another bunch of Israli troublemakers I had a run-in with, the Lekem. 🙂 There were supposedly dissolved (but absorbed actually) and it’s Director Rafi Eitan was forced to resigned (with a massive pension) over the exposure of Jonathan Pollard (a Texan, curiously 😉 ), who was convicted of spying for Lekem. Lekem’s brief and agenda were to steal any technology they could from the USA, UK, USSR & Japan primarily, but anywhere that had anything of interest really, even here. And they were very successful!

Israel granted Pollard citizenship in 1995, while publicly denying that he was an Israeli spy (Pollard is in a US prison on a life sentence without parole). Without Pollard (or another American, Ben-Ami Kadish) Israel wouldn’t have much of a Nuclear weapons program. 🙂 Many Israeli activist groups and even high profile Israeli politicians such as Benjamin Netanyahu, have (or are) lobbying for Pollards release. Apparently, Pollard is now a Jew. 😉 Oh, my… how anti-Semitic of me to use a Jew in a fact! :O Oh… the shame… the shame! Of course, I should know that ALL Jew’s are God-Fearing, law-abiding, 100% GOOD people! As are all Christians, and Muslims! For shame… tch, tch… there will be much clucking of tongues and wringing of hands over this!! Oh well… Such is my lot in life! 😀

😆 😆

13 Kryten42 { 10.11.09 at 4:45 am }

After my comment about Pollard, I got curious and did some more digging. Amazing what one can find! 😉

It seems the Isralis wanted Pollard so badly, they even tried a little extortion (I’m sure the fools will just call this normal politics). Even the Jerusalem City Council has also acted in support of Pollard, changing the name of a square near the official prime minister’s residence from Paris Square to Freedom for Jonathan Pollard Square.

At the 1998 Wye River Conference, Benjamin Netanyahu demanded Pollard’s release, and in return, he would sign an agreement with Arafat. President Clinton made a public statement about reviewing the case.

Four past directors of Naval Intelligence, William Studeman, Sumner Shapiro, John L. Butts, and Thomas Brooks, authored a response to the talk of clemency and what they termed “the myths that have arisen from this clever public relations campaign… aimed at transforming Pollard from greedy, arrogant betrayer of the American national trust into Pollard, committed Israeli patriot”.[54] They asserted that Pollard passed information to three other countries before engaging in espionage activity on behalf of Israel, and that he had offered his services to a fourth country while he was spying for Israel.[54] They continued,

“Pollard and his apologists argue he turned over to the Israelis information they were being denied that was critical to their security. The fact is, however, Pollard had no way of knowing what the Israeli government was already receiving by way of official intelligence exchange agreements… Some of the data he compromised had nothing to do with Israeli security or even with the Middle East. He betrayed worldwide intelligence data, including sources and methods developed at significant cost to the U.S. taxpayer. As a result of his perfidy, some of those sources are lost forever.”

“…Another claim Pollard made is that the U.S. government reneged on its bargain not to seek the life sentence. What is not heard is that Pollard’s part of the bargain was to cooperate fully in an assessment of the damage he had done and to refrain from talking to the press prior to the completion of his sentencing. He blatantly and contemptuously failed to live up to either part of the plea agreement… It was this coupled with the magnitude and consequences of his criminal actions that resulted in the judge imposing a life sentence… The appellate court subsequently upheld the life sentence.”

“If, as Pollard and his supporters claim, he has “suffered enough” for his crimes, he is free to apply for parole as the American judicial system provides. In his arrogance, he has refused to do so, but insists on being granted clemency or a pardon.”

Admiral Shapiro, who was himself Jewish, stated that he was troubled by the support of Jewish organizations for Pollard: “We work so hard to establish ourselves and to get where we are, and to have somebody screw it up… and then to have Jewish organizations line up behind this guy and try to make him out a hero of the Jewish people, it bothers the hell out of me”.

Eric Margolis alleges that Pollard’s spying may have led to the capture and execution of CIA spies in the Eastern Bloc after Israel sold or bartered Pollard’s information to the Soviet Union. (This wouldn’t surprise me one bit!)

Why Pollard Should Never Be Released (The Traitor) — Seymour Hersh

Steve Gilliard had a good rant about Pollard in 2005. 🙂
Free Pollard? Why not free Aldrich Ames as well

Yep! It’s soooooooooooooooo obvious that Israel is a TRUE friend of the USA!

14 Kryten42 { 10.11.09 at 6:27 am }

I am biting my tongue Bryan! I keep repeating the mantra… ‘public blog’

Homer really is as ignorant as a baby!

In 2005, the Nobel Prize in Economic Science was awarded to Israeli mathematician and game theory specialist Robert J. Aumann, co-founder of the Center for Rationality at Hebrew University. This Jerusalem resident explains: “the entire school of thought that we have developed here in Israel” has turned “Israel into the leading authority in this field.”
…
merica the Mark

From a game theory perspective, what is the probability of a violent reaction in the Middle East after more than a half-century of serial Israeli provocations—in an environment where the U.S. is identified (correctly) as the Zionist state’s special friend and protector?

During the 1967 War, the Israeli killing of 34 Americans aboard the USS Liberty confirmed that a U.S. president (Democrat Lyndon Johnson) could be induced to condone murderous behavior by Israel. Two decades later, Operation Trojan confirmed that a U.S. president (Republican Ronald Reagan) could be induced to attack an Arab nation based on intelligence fixed by Israel.

For more than six decades, the U.S. has armed, financed, befriended and defended Zionism. This “special relationship” includes the U.S.-discrediting veto of dozens of U.N. resolutions critical of Israeli conduct. From a game theory perspective, how difficult was it to anticipate that—out of a worldwide population of 1.3 billion Muslims—19 Muslim men could be induced to perpetrate a murderous act in response to U.S support for Israel’s lengthy mistreatment of Arabs and Muslims, particularly Palestinians?

Israeli game theorists operate not from the Center for Morality or the Center for Justice but from the Center for Rationality. As modeled by Zionist war planners, game theory is devoid of all values except one: the ability to anticipate—within an acceptable range of probabilities—how “the mark” will react when provoked. Thus we see the force-multiplier potential for those who wage war with well-planned provocations and well-timed crises.

Israeli behavior is often immoral and unjust but that does not mean it is irrational. For Colonial Zionists committed to the pursuit of an expansionist agenda, even murderous provocations are rational because the response can be mathematically modeled, ensuring the results are reasonably foreseeable. That alone is sufficient for a people who, as God’s chosen, consider it their right to operate above the rule of law.

How Israel Wages Game Theory Warfare

15 Bryan { 10.11.09 at 10:30 pm }

Mr. Duff, a series of attacks over most a day on a clearly marked US Naval vessel is not a targeting error, especially after the US government started sending the notes through diplomatic channels.

The Israelis didn’t want any third party witnesses to what they had done and were doing.

The best equipment and weapons that the Arabs had were tied up in a conflict in Yemen. That is why it was a six-day war, and why there was absolutely no imminent threat to Israel.

It was a war of aggression to occupy more land. They wanted more lebensraum, as the Israeli leaders at that time have since admitted.

Israel paid no price for their murder, as the referenced reparations that they paid for their actions, were in fact replaced by Congressional collaborators.

Yes, everyone does it, but most have the decency to be embarrassed when caught.

Don’t try to convince someone who went to school with some of those who died on the Liberty, that there is any reason for the US to support Israel.

16 Kryten42 { 10.11.09 at 11:23 pm }

When I was blogging at LM, I did a series on Israel atrocities against the USA, and the USA’s seeming collusion. I received an email from someone I’d dealt with while working in the USA, who became a regular at LM, and wanted to remain anonymous. I didn’t publish it as I didn’t have time to verify the contents (even though I knew the source… old habits, and professionalism demanded it) and LM closed shortly after. I know the tragedy of the Liberty is close to home, and why, for you Bryan. And I know that you know a lot about what happened, and maybe even why.

As I say, i haven’t had a chance to verify any of this, but if you know, I’ll leave it to you to decide what to do with this.

Israel bombed the Liberty to bring about an American attack on their old nemisis, Egypt, in retaliation. American Servicemen claim that a nuclear attack on Cairo was only narrowly averted. On the TV documentary, ?Dead in the Water,? US servicemen testify on camera that nuclear-armed planes were sent to attack Cairo on receipt of the news in Washington. The US authorities falsely assumed that it was an Egyptian attack on the Liberty, and thus officials ordered immediate retaliation. Of course, for this plan to work, the Liberty had to be destroyed and its crew killed. The planes were recalled when it was realized that the attacker was actually the Israeli forces. The sources in the film are a crew-member from the aircraft carrier USS America who saw the planes launched; a US Navy radio operator who heard the radio traffic about them being launched which he is certain was referring to nuclear-armed aircraft; and the account given by a Liberty survivor of a conversation at the time with the commander of the Sixth Fleet carriers in which he (the admiral) describes what happened, producer Chris Mitchell told IslamOnline. The radio operator states on camera that he heard US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara personally give the orders. A couple of other witnesses talked to program makers off camera. When interviewed by the team, McNamara denied the charges. Said Mitchell, ?I certainly think people in Cairo might like to know how close they came to being incinerated by a US nuclear bomb.?

The Pentagon lied to the public about the attack on the Liberty from the very beginning. In a decision personally approved by the loathsome McNamara, the Pentagon denied to the press that the Liberty was an intelligence ship, referring to it instead as a Technical Research ship, as if it were little more than a military version of Jacques Cousteau’s Calypso. The military press corps on the USS America, where most of the wounded sailors had been taken, were placed under extreme restrictions. All of the stories filed from the carrier were first routed through the Pentagon for security clearance, objectionable material was removed with barely a bleat of protest from the reporters or their publications.

The bigger question is why the US government would participate so enthusiastically in the cover-up of a war crime against its own sailors. Through most of the 1960s, the US congress had imposed a ban on the sale of arms to Israel. But at the time of the Liberty attack, the Pentagon (and its allies in the White House and on the Hill) were seeking to have this proscription overturned. The top brass certainly knew that any evidence of a deliberate attack on a US Navy ship by the IDF would scuttle their plans. So they hushed it up. In January 1968, the arms embargo on Israel was lifted and the sale of American weapons began to flow. By 1971, Israel was buying $600 million of American-made weapons a year. Two years later the purchases topped $3 billion. Almost overnight, Israel had become the largest buyer of US-made arms and aircraft.

Perversely, the IDF’s strike on the Liberty served to weld the US and Israel together, in a kind of bizzare political and military embrace. Now, every time the IDF attacks villages in Gaza and the West Bank with F-16s and Apache helicopters, the Palestinians quite rightly see the bloody assaults as a joint operation, with the Pentagon as a hidden partner. Thus, does the legacy of the Liberty, and The International War Machine, roll on.

17 Kryten42 { 10.11.09 at 11:25 pm }

*SIGH* Sorry! I didn’t copy the whole thing! Here’s the first part (you can join them or delete them as you wish)

The Attack on the USS Liberty by Israel in 1967 is the kind of story that makes your blood seethe. It’s another lie that has been widely promoted, and accepted, and then thrown into the dustbin of history.

The glaring inconsistincies concerning the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty need to be exposed, especially now with so many American’s fighting and dying in the middle east. Much new evidence has come out about the fact that the Israeli attack was deliberate, and that the US government went to extraordinary lengths to disguise the truth. Both the US and Israel governments would rather this story remain in the dark, but understand this, Israel is not the innocent angel with a halo over it’s head that so many would like you to believe, and the actions of the US government in this are nothing short of traitorous. On June 8, 1967, as Israel was torturing Egyptian prisoners of war at Al Arish, some 13 miles off the Mediterranean coast, the Israeli air force bombed the USS Liberty, resulting in the deaths of 34 American servicemen, and leaving 174 injured, many seriously. It was an attack on a UNARMED US Intelligence Ship, and the US government seemed all too willing to look the other way.

The Israeli air force sent more than 800 rounds of cannon fire, rockets, heavy bombs and burning napalm on to the USS Liberty. In an attack that lasted more than an hour, three Israeli vessels fired five torpedoes at the ship, virtually destroying the American boat. Escaping sailors were hit by machine gun fire, leading many survivors to believe that it was Israel?s intention to kill all aboard. Yet, despite the loss of American life and 174 injured servicemen, Congress still refused to launch an official investigation to reassess the original Court of Inquiry, which claimed it was merely a tragic accident. The Navy Court of Inquiry, held just 10 days after the attack, officially accepted Israel?s claim that it mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian ship. This is despite the fact that only hours after the Liberty arrived it was spotted by the Israeli military. The IDF sent out reconnaissance planes to identify the ship. They made eight trips over a period of three hours. The Liberty was flying a large US flag and was easily recognizable as an American vessel.

A few hours later more planes came. These were Israeli Mirage III fighters, armed with rockets and machine guns. As off-duty officers sunbathed on the deck, the fighters opened fire on the defenseless ship with rockets and machine guns. A few minutes later a second wave of planes streaked overhead, French-built Mystere jets, which not only pelted the ship with gunfire but also with napalm bomblets, coating the deck with the flaming jelly. By now, the Liberty was on fire and dozens were wounded and killed, excluding several of the ship’s top officers. As the Liberty listed in the choppy seas, its deck aflame, crew members dropped life rafts into the water and prepared to scuttle the ship. Given the number of wounded, this was going to be a dangerous operation. But it soon proved impossible, as the Israeli attack boats strafed the rafts with machine gun fire. No body was going to get out alive that way.

That the attack happened in broad daylight, and that the ship was flying a large American flag and had its name painted in English in five-foot letters on the side seems to be of no consequence. The Court of Inquiry deep-sixed testimony and affidavits regarding the flag-Ennes had ordered: a crisp new one deployed early on the morning of the attack. The investigators buried intercepts of conversations between IDF pilots identifying the ship as flying an American flag. Retired Captain Ward Boston, who was the legal counsel to the Navy Court of Inquiry, told the publication that he and the Court?s president, the late Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd, always believed that Israeli forces knowingly attacked the Liberty. Israel attacked the USS Liberty using UNMARKED AIRCRAFT. This is the single fact which proves Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel’s story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war. Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft. The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt. The top legal council to the official investigation who was in a position to know, agreed that Israel intended to sink the USS Liberty and blame Egypt for it, thus dragging the United States into a war on Israel’s behalf. This seems to be a common trick of Israel. Starting with the Lavon affair, through the USS Liberty, to the fake radio transmitter that tricked Reagan into attacking Libya, to potentially 9-11 itself, Israel’s game is to frame Arabs and set them up as targets for the United States.

The official US investigation is discredited. And with it, every claim of innocence for Israel that relied on the official investigation as a source. The real question facing the American people is why the US Government seemed, and continues to seem more concerned with protecting Israel after they are caught playing these dirty tricks, rather than defending their troops, and letting the people know just what happened to the USS Liberty. For example, the Liberty’s radio team tried to issue a distress call, but discovered the frequencies had been jammed by the Israeli planes with what one communications specialist called “a buzzsaw sound.” (NOTE: even testimony by the Liberty’s communications officers about the jamming of the ship’s radios was classified as “Top Secret.” The reason? It proved that Israel knew it was attacking an American ship. “Here was strong evidence that the attack was planned in advance and that our ship’s identity was known to the attackers, for it its practically impossible to jam the radio of a stranger, but this information was hushed up and no conclusions were drawn from it.) Finally, an open channel was found and the Liberty got out a message it was under attack to the USS America, the Sixth Fleet’s large aircraft carrier.

Two F-4s left the carrier to come to the Liberty’s aid. When word reached the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara became irate and ordered the jets to return. “Tell the Sixth Fleet to get those aircraft back immediately”, he barked. McNamara’s injunction was reiterated in saltier terms by Admiral David L. McDonald, the chief of Naval Operations: “You get those fucking airplanes back on deck, and you get them back down.” The planes turned around. And the attack on the Liberty continued. After the attack, as the wounded were being evacuated, an officer with the Office of Naval Intelligence instructed the men not to talk about their ordeal with the press. Within three weeks, the Navy put out the 700-page report, exonerating the Israelis, claiming the attack had been accidental and that the Israelis had pulled back as soon as they realized their mistake. Defense Secretary McNamara suggested the whole affair should be forgotten. “These errors do occur”, McNamara concluded.

Jim Ennes was a lieutenant on the bridge of the USS Liberty on the day of the attack, and is instrumental in leading the campaign for the truth to be made public. Ennes told IslamOnline that he believes the new testimony in the Navy Times gives greater credibility to their campaign, ?especially as the Court of Inquiry is the only investigative body that talked to the crew.? More proof has recently come to light from the Israeli side. A few years after Attack on the Liberty was originally published, Ennes got a call from Evan Toni, an Israeli pilot. Toni told Ennes that he had just read his book and wanted to tell him his story. Toni said that he was the pilot in the first Israeli Mirage fighter to reach the Liberty. He immediately recognized the ship to be a US Navy vessel. He radioed Israeli air command with this information and asked for instructions. Toni said he was ordered to “attack.” He refused and flew back to the air base at Ashdod. When he arrived he was summarily arrested for disobeying orders. A particularly damning report compiled by a CIA informant suggests that Israeli Defense minister Moshe Dayan personally ordered the attack and wanted it to proceed until the Liberty was sunk and all on board killed.

After a Newsweek story exposed the gist of what really happened on that day in the Mediterranean, an enraged Admiral McCain placed all the sailors under a gag order. When one sailor told an officer that he was having problems living with the cover-up, he was told: “Forget about it, that’s an order.” The Navy went to bizarre lengths to keep the crew of the Liberty from telling what they knew. When gag orders didn’t work, they threatened sanctions. Ennes tells of the confinement and interrogation of two Liberty sailors that sounds like something right out of the CIA’s MK-Ultra program. “In an incredible abuse of authority, military officers held two young Liberty sailors against their will in a locked and heavily guarded psychiatric ward of the base hospital”, Ennes writes. “For days these men were drugged and questioned about their recollections of the attack by a ‘therapist’ who admitted to being untrained in either psychiatry or psychology. At one point, they avoided electroshock only by bolting from the room and demanding to see the commanding officer.” Upon coming home, the veterans who tried to tell of their ordeal were harassed relentlessly. They were branded as drunks, bigots, liars and frauds. Often, it turns out, these slurs were leaked by the Pentagon. And, of course, they were also painted as anti-Semites.

18 Bryan { 10.11.09 at 11:51 pm }

There is some stuff due to be declassified in 2017 that will clear all this up. This is what you get when you put CEOs in charge of the Defense Department – corporate profits are all they worry about.

The Israelis had pictures and silhouettes of every vessel in any Arab navy, and the Liberty isn’t even close to any of them.

All Navy intel vessels are Technical Research ships, that’s their official designator. That’s how you track them in the inventory. That’s a naming convention, not an attempt to hide anything, because everyone knows that. The other thing it means is that they have no ship mounted weapons, which makes a difference in ports of call and passage through waterways, as they are technically not “war ships”.