Guns
I have had this discussion too often and am frankly tired of it. Yes, I understand that guns are a problem for people who live in urban settings, so people who live in urban settings ought to consider doing something about it that doesn’t affect those of us that don’t.
Bears, alligators, 6-foot diamondback rattlesnakes, coyotes, foxes, and raccoons are apt to be in my neighborhood. If I call the sheriff I am told it may be 30 minutes or more before someone can get here, because it’s a big county and there aren’t all that many deputies. If the Hedgemony has sent the local Guard to help with his misadventure in the Middle East, there are even fewer deputies, and an unpaid auxiliary deputy may be the only one available to respond, after an hour or so.
We have guns around here, because they have proven to be useful tools. Now, if that makes us somehow suspect and defective, I would like to know how in the hell we are supposed to deal with our reality, given a limited tax-base and population? That city people don’t need guns, is their good fortune, because guns are expensive and dangerous if not used properly.
The bulk of my extended family lives in upstate New York, which is like rural Pennsylvania. Clinton does well because she visits her constituents in upstate New York and knows about their problems. This helps her in rural Pennsylvania. People hunt because it is traditional, and a deer in larder cuts down on the cost of meat, which hasn’t gotten any cheaper. If you don’t cull the large herds of deer, they starve from lack of food, as man is the only predator left in the Northeast.
Outsourcing didn’t start in the last 25 years, it has been going on for a much longer time, but the initial wave 50 years ago was from the Northeast to the South. So people in small town New York and Pennsylvania have been watching their jobs disappear for generations.
The people in the Northeast don’t trust the government to help them, because the government has long been a tool of the “owners” to put down the workers. Some people need to do a little reading about the history of the coal and steel unions in Pennsylvania, especially about the use of police, militia, and private armies to attack strikers, to understand about the attitude of people in rural Pennsylvania towards “their government”.
Those same people need to do some reading about social welfare in those areas, because the government is very late to process. The churches and, then the unions were the social safety net until well after the Depression, and small-town people don’t move around a lot, so they have deep roots in their communities, and long memories. You honor what has worked in the past, and wait for something to prove itself before you trust it.
Making excuses for your own lack of preparation is not an endearing quality, especially when the excuse is an attempt to cover your failings by blaming other people. We’ve had all we will ever need of that from the Hedgemony. Do you homework and the problem disappears.
22 comments
I think people should be able to have guns and receive training. By arming yourself, you should be considered part of the militia and subject to proper regulation.
Michael, I’m sure you’re a quick study. (Steve ducks head, looks for cover…) 🙂
Bryan, forgive my ignorance: I saw some quote of Hillary saying she had once shot a duck, but I don’t really have a context for your post. I even wrote some comments about guns, then decided not to post them, not knowing that context. If you are too tired or frustrated to explain, feel free to toss me a link. Thanks.
Michael, at the time of the Bill of Rights, the term “well-regulated” meant efficient – you can look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary which traces the changes of meanings through time. In the context of the military and militias “regulations” deal with concrete, quantitative issues, like numbers, colors, measurements, not conduct. Rules deal with conduct, which is why the military discusses “rules and regulations”. Regulations specify the color of your pants; rules specify when you can take them off.
The Second Amendment means whatever at least 5 of 9 justices on the Supreme Court decide it means when they deliver their pending decision, so there’s no point in discussing it.
You lived in Pittsburgh, I seem to remember, so you would be familiar with the local area and attitudes. Is it unreasonable to assume that local people feel a good deal more betrayed by corporations than the government that acted as the surrogate for those corporations? I’m asking because the people I know in towns like Beaver, tend to save their bile for the companies that screwed them over, not the government. Am I wrong to assume that the local media is still controlled by the descendants of the 19th century Robber Barons who controlled much of Western Pennsylvania, and therefore local media is not a good source of unvarnished truth?
Steve, this is a general reaction to a lot of posts trying to spin what Obama said, and are making matters worse. The DNC is already down to 48 states, and if they keep this crap up it is going to be 47. I really think the GOP should have to work for the Presidency, not be handed it on a silver platter.
Trashing your opponent is just politics; trashing voters is brain-dead stupid.
What a pair of bookends our posts make today. I am in complete agreeance with you, Sir.
Sometimes real life intervenes: mere minutes ago, I received word that my former State Rep. Borris Miles was indicted today on two counts of “deadly conduct,” both on the same day. It appears (my conjecture based on available info) that Miles allegedly got rather beered up and pulled his gun twice, first on the wife of a TSU regent in a facility lounge at the Toyota Center at a Rockets/Mavericks game, and later on a local businessman at a party thrown by the businessman. It’s been a few months since it happened, but as best I recall, Miles had a concealed-carry permit for the weapon.
Fortunately, his predecessor in office, for whom I have no great love, beat Miles in the Dem primary, mainly because of the incidents. But what a comedown! Miles was the up-and-coming Dem star locally; all of us had great hopes for him. Unfortunately, he exercised his right to (ahem) beer arms…
Frederick, if matters weren’t so touchy in every way today, I’d write y’all some doggerel rhyming “agreeance” with “malfeeance.” Maybe another time.
Bryan, maybe I’m wrong to do so, but as I still have no dog in this race, I think for the moment I’ll just stand back and watch the fireworks. If the candidates think they can spin enough to triangulate matters involving guns, they’re bigger fools than I thought. I’m going to be soooo pissed off if they hand this thing to McCain…
(Note to self: the proposed doggerel could also rhyme “triangulation” with “strangulation” … someone else please feel free to write the thing.)
Bryan, the Pittsburgh local news media is so bad that Fox Noise is an improvement.
bears and foxes and snakes! oh my!
i’m not overly impressed with your catalog of dangers. i’ve spent time in the company of all the critters you mention, and a few more besides, and never once had to shoot any of them to ensure my safety, though there have been a few terribly undignified retreats to the nearest car.
otoh, much of the time i spent in alabama was in places where hunting really was the only way some of my neighbors could afford to feed their families.
on the other other hand, shooting stuff is just plain fun. if it spits out bullets, or arrows, there’s a good chance i’ve shot some kind of target with it. i’d hate to not ever be able to do that for fun again ]i’d seriously hate doing it out of necessity] but honestly, i can’t see that joe and joan q public need either handguns or assault rifles.
You know what you’re supposed to do, don’t ya? Don’t shoot it – give it some Courvoisier!
Ah, venison. If you get a deer, can you please send me some? My brother is a lousy shot. And being ADD, he makes too much noise. 😉
BTW I said I didn’t have a gun – but I forgot – we have a pellet/bb gun. Just can’t call that a gun….lol…. Bro got all of Dad’s when he died. But big fat squirrels were eating the eaves of our house and they got into the attic behind Bug’s room. So that was that.
I even taught Bug how to shoot – although between Playstation and arcade games, he had a jump start and is not a bad shot.
Hipparchia, I use a 12-gauge when something won’t retreat. Most things leave if you fire it into the ground, but the foxes and raccoons are a problem because of rabies. I can usually deal with the snakes with a hoe and a bag, until the snake lady shows up to take them to wherever she takes them, when I can get hold of her. I’m not anxious to kill anything, but I’m not happy with having cats and kids hurt in my front yard. I have no right to to annoy them in their space, and they have no right to annoy me in mine.
That’s what I thought, Michael, and what I heard from my friends.
Steve, they should bury him under the jail. I’m not a fan of concealed carry permits, or handguns in general. The only time I felt the need to carry a handgun, when I wasn’t on duty, was camping in Alaska because of the moose. Trust me on this – moose are insane and a good deal more dangerous than bears or wolves. A .357 revolver with a 6-inch barrel was a lot more convenient than a rifle. Again, the point was to scare it off, because if you killed it. you had to eat it in Alaska, that’s the law with serious penalties if you broke it.
I’m not part of this campaign anymore, but I have had it with all of the misinformation and distortions coming from so many formerly sane people in support of their candidates. If people look at your policies and don’t see anything in those policies that is appealing, they aren’t going to vote for you. If they think your opponent will be worst, they may vote against your opponent. If you totally tick them off, they won’t vote at all. My real aggravation is with the supporters, more than the candidates themselves at this point.
As for Hillary and guns, my Mother was on the town council for a while and she was always being invited to dove shoots, so I assume that Hillary Clinton was probably invited when she was the first lady of Arkansas – it’s a Southern thing. I don’t know if she went, but it wouldn’t have been unusual if she did, because it is part of the political culture.
Even when times were good in the Northeast, after WWII, rural people hunted, and small town life revolved around the churches – that has nothing to do with the economy. My real concern is that, having already alienated voters in Florida and Michigan, Pennsylvania may be next and the small chance of keeping John McCain out of the White House disappears.
Oh, no, Moi, you’re one of the gun-crazed Pennsylvanians! I would think that the old corn field at your place would be a natural draw for deer.
I don’t hunt. I’ve done more than enough killing in my life, and don’t need to do anymore unless it is absolutely necessary, which it fortunately isn’t at the moment.
I think you’re on the wrong end of the state for my friends in West Virginia, who don’t hunt as much as protect their garden from deer and rabbits, although everything killed is eaten.
Even as a lacto-ovo-veggie who doesn’t own a gun, I’d have to be a serious hypocrite to oppose hunting. My grandfather on my mother’s side hunted back during the Great Depression (will we soon be calling it the First Great Depression?), and the deer he harvested kept his six-person family alive when money was scarce and cattle were mainly for dairy. In a manner of speaking, I’m alive because Pop hunted deer. Pop taught me to use a rifle, because he felt every young man… and woman; my mother was a good shot… should know how, but I was neither an enthusiastic nor a talented student.
I have eaten enough critters for a lifetime, and I still wear leather shoes, so indirectly I still kill animals, just not as many. But it’s very much a personal choice to minimize one’s impact on the fauna; humans are natural omnivores.
Frankly, I think it would be really nice if we tried enforcing a few of the laws that are already on the books about guns. Too many guns used in crimes are coming from too few dealers for it to be a coincidence, and I think the dealers who are involved need to be put out of business.
People keep yelling for more laws, when we don’t enforce the laws that exist. It’s damn stupid way to run a country.
And while I’m at it, I don’t like sales at guns shows, because they drive good dealers out of business and protect a lot of less than honest and upright people. I’m not happy with Wal-Mart selling guns, and don’t get me started on pawn shops.
Hi all,
I agree that there are few legitimate reasons to own a gun in a metropolitan area. Here in Aus, they are a necessity in rural areas for various reasons, but even there now ownership is heavily regulated.
You can get anything on eBay or Craigslist. 🙂 The Subcommittee on National Security and Foreign Affairs asked the GAO to investigate stolen military hardware being sold there recently. Was a smorgasboard of forbidden hardware apparently.
http://newsbreak.com.au/search.ac?relkey=a1084974
Easy to see where Iran is getting it’s spare parts from. LOL
BTW… Remember those undersea cables being cut? Seems they may have found the culprits.
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/73911,two-held-over-undersea-cable-damage.aspx
Curioser and curioser… 😉
Cheers!
I must be late to the party. Who’s alienating gun owners, again? I guess I missed that bit of the spin cycle. On the other hand, maybe it’s for the better. We’re definitely in the “silly season” now, one made-up pseudo-scandal after another to attack one candidate or the other with. Sadly, it’s the Democrats attacking each other at the moment, rather than Democrats attacking McCain :-(.
For the record, I don’t own a handgun because I don’t have the time to properly qualify with one at a range and sans that, a handgun is more a menace to myself than to an intruder. I do own a couple of shotguns and have tormented many a tin can or milk jug with them in the past, as well as managed to shoot a few branches behind squirrels when hunting with my Uncle Alvis. I’m much better at fishing, I can actually catch fish :-). And I’m quite aware of how rural churches work as the primary social activity and help network in a rural community, been there, done that, it’s been years since I moved away but you don’t forget. I’m just wondering whether I’m one of the people who’s supposed to be insulted by whatever pseudo-scandal is currently underway. On the other hand, maybe it’s for the better if I don’t inquire further, don’t need to get my blood pressure up…
– Badtux the Well-armed Penguin
Sadly, Badtux, you are tracking the main story – supporters of Democratic candidates are attacking groups of people who tend to support different candidates. Attacking voters is always stupid, but attacking your own party’s voters with stereotyping is beyond stupid, and a recipe for a disaster in the real election.
Some people can’t figure out who the “enemy” is, which is not the way to win a “war”.
As I remember there are dingos and crocodiles in your “Outback”, Kryten, as well as the worlds most concentrated collection of poisonous creatures, so a weapon in your rural areas might come in handy.
That article on the cables is interesting. The government denied it was a ship, but then the ships were identified. Tracing the ownership on those vessels and the crews could lead to names that no one wants to say aloud. A bit odd that no government agency pursued the satellite photo option, leaving it to the owners of the cable to use the less precise commercial photos for identification. You have to wonder why that is.
Hi m8. 🙂
Aus has more dangerous varieties of flora & fauna than any other continent. 🙂 Many of us find it very useful in eliminating those annoyingly stupid tourists. Really, countries should pay us for removing the stupid and strengthening their gene pools. 😉 LOL
From memory, we have the 10 deadliest species of snakes in the world (and most aggressive! Such as the Taipan and Eastern brown snake). We have 2 poisonous species of turtles even. And luckily for most tourists, the Platypus they love to try to catch and hold is very shy as it has the most painful toxin known to man in hidden spurs on the hind legs! The pain can last for months. Even the frogs here can kill you, and of course we have the deadliest jellyfish, octopi, spiders, skorpions, crocodiles, sharks etc, etc. 🙂 And people want to come here backpacking? LOL
I learned all this during survival training many years ago, and kept up a keen interest. 😀
I was helping a friend out on his large farm over Easter. A rifle and knives are considered essential for several reasons. But the most important weapon is education. Considering that Aus has the deadliest creatures known, the number of Australian fatalities is relatively low. Most Aussies have a very healthy respect for nature or they don’t last long especially if they live on the edges of suburbia or the outback. The general rule of thumbs is “Keep your eyes open, watch where you are stepping, and leave it alone!” But education is crucial. For example, if a snake is moving towards you, stand still and it will usually pass by. The exception is the Taipan and sea snakes. They are more aggressive and may well attack, and they are fast.
There was an interesting story on an ABC science program about the Venom & toxins and how they work. 🙂 The Platypus is fascinating and still not quite understood. 🙂
There is an article about it here for anyone interested.
Great Australian Bites
And yes… that whole cable thing is very curious. Will be interesting to see what comes of it, or it just disappears. 😉
Cheers!
Actually, the in the survival segment I took, the Australian segment was short – crashing in the Outback: DON’T!
I love your version of “cowboys” and the “fun” they have with wild bulls – makes Spanish fighting bulls look like wimps.
We have several varieties of rattlesnake, the copperhead, the cottonmouth water moccasin, and the coral snake [the American branch of the cobra family]. Alligators aren’t as big as crocs. Frankly most of them will run if you give them an opportunity, but we keep paving the areas that they can run to, so they are being encountered more frequently.
It will be interesting to see if the cable story gets buried, which would tend to indicate that all was not as presented. If the “defendants” show up in court with expensive lawyers, that will also tell a tale.
“It will be interesting to see if the cable story gets buried, …” – Bryan
If so, will they post a sign for journalists, “Warning: Buried Cable Story / Please check with authorities before digging”?
Stella, who is far from timid, and who and was smart enough to survive camping across Alaska one year, was absolutely terrified outdoors only once in the time I’ve known her: when we saw the biggest cottonmouth water moccasin I’ve ever encountered, swimming across a creek we were walking along. Even on another occasion when we encountered a young alligator standing across the marked path, we didn’t beat a retreat as hasty as the one we made from the water moccasin. We were well away by the time it reached the bank. We’re passably capable outdoorspeople in Texas, but I don’t think we’d make very good Aussies.
Cottonmouths don’t retreat, which is unlike every other snake I’ve personally encountered. You usually end up having to kill them, which is not a good outcome, but the only one possible.
I know Aus has over 150 species of snakes alone! 🙂 But only a dozen or so can kill you. The croc is a fearsome beast! It averages 4m long and can get to 7m! It’s surprisingly agile, as a few stupidly curious people have found out.
Steve, you’d make good Aussies actually I think. Common sense and a healthy dose of fear is a very good thing to have. 🙂 Nothing beats knowledge and respect for the land. It’s the most important lesson we have had to learn from our indigenous people. Aus can be a harsh and unforgiving land, but it also can be beautiful and simply magical! I have traveled extensively, and even lived in the USA and I found much to admire and enjoy there, but I always come back. I find that true of many Aussies who leave but have an attachment of some kind to the land here. I don’t know what it is or why, I just know it is. 🙂 I still get funny looks when I mention that Aus has the 2nd biggest desert in the World after the Sahara (the Simpson desert). LOL People (and not just American’s BTW) think of Aus as a small island somewhere south. 🙂
I enjoyed my time in the USA and would love to visit again (perhaps after the insanity stops however), but I will always live here. I was warned about Cottonmouths when I was traveling there and remember just smiling. 😀
Bryan, apparently there were two Iraqi’s on one of the ships that have been detained. I still find it amazing the story that they just happened to drop their anchors during a storm right where the cables were! If that had come across my desk during my Intel days, I would have laughed and said “Yeah, right!” I find it too hard to believe it was an accident. You know the saying “Once may be an accident, twice might be a coincidence, but three times is deliberate” (or a conspiracy).
Cheers. 🙂
The areas are marked on charts and GPS is too ubiquitous to believe they didn’t know they were in a restricted area. Then you have the failure to report anything after it was known the cables were broken. Large ships are better off in deep water when there’s a storm. You rig a sea anchor and ride it out where there is no chance of grounding. It would take an awful lot of “luck” for two ships to both be anchoring over the route of an undersea cable. We are talking “Dr Zhivago accidentally running into old friends at a tiny station on the TransSiberian Railroad” kind of coincidence. [I didn’t buy in the novel either].