Interesting Decision
The Supreme Court made an uncharacteristic decision: Justices limit car searches without warrant
Justice John Paul Stevens said in the majority opinion that warrantless searches still may be conducted if a car’s passenger compartment is within reach of a suspect who has been removed from the vehicle or there is reason to believe evidence will be found of the crime that led to the arrest.
…The justices divided in an unusual fashion. Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Antonin Scalia, David Souter and Clarence Thomas joined the majority opinion. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Stephen Breyer and Anthony Kennedy were in dissent along with Alito.
What they have done is gone back to the rule that was applied back in the 1970s for a “search incidental to arrest”, rather than the much more expansive searches allowed under the Rehnquist Court. Having Scalia and Thomas join the majority would seem to indicate that they are nervous about expanding police powers when Democrats are in power.
The rule I followed was always get a warrant if possible, because that eliminated any problems at trial. In the particular case that was decided, it was a loser from the beginning, because the actual arrest was for a traffic offense, and the search took place after the suspect was already in custody in the back of the patrol car. There was zero justification for a search of the vehicle.
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I think it’s similar here. Police have to have ‘reasonable cause’ to perform a search of a private vehicle.
I was in a situation in the late 80’s that was almost comical (well, it seems so now. At the time it wasn’t at all). It happened as I was working for DIO. It’s along and kinda complex story, the gist is: I hadn’t *actually* committed any crime (I believed that I had a pretty clear understanding of the relevant laws involved at the time, and I did push things close to the limit, but I was sure I hadn’t crossed the line). The police had been called out several times and in the end I think were just frustrated and decided we could sort it all out in court. A bad decision on their part. Courts are not know for having a sense of humor, and the police actually broke several laws in the process (false arrest, restriction of freedom without just cause, breaking and entering and theft – they had removed goods from my car without my consent or a warrant…) The Judge was seriously nervous and angry as my counsel was a senior QC from DIO. The Judge asked if we wanted to prosecute the NSW Police Dep’t. I had been instructed to keep my mouth shut and only answer a direct question as succinctly as possible. The QC said no charges would be laid as long as the Court ordered that all paperwork relating to my illegal arrest were destroyed, which the Judge so ordered, and the Police rep’s looked extremely nervous about that! BTW, the dispute was over ownership of the goods, a civil dispute.
I discovered some years later that the records hadn’t in fact been destroyed! I was visited once by two detectives looking for ‘someone at the scene of a crime fitting my description. I asked how they knew that, and they said the details were from my arrest record some years earlier. I had the court order ordering those documents ‘expunged’ (I think was the term). I showed it to the senior detective who said ‘Oh God! Sorry for the inconvenience.’ And got up to leave my office, and I said “Wait! What the hell is this about? And why weren’t those records destroyed?” They said they would find out and let me know. A lawyer later told me I had a ‘get out of jail free card’ 🙂 Not that I’ve ever been tempted to use it. But, you never know when it might come in handy! 😉
Sometimes, the Police are their own worst enemy. 🙂
All of the restrictions on police procedure in the US are the result of egregious behavior, not just some technical infraction, by the police. In almost every case that we covered in the police procedure course, the officers involved had more than enough evidence to get a conviction, but they decided to push it.
The cops always complain about the courts tying their hands, but it was other cops doing incredibly stupid and unnecessary things that so appalled the courts that they overreacted in some instances. I can understand the judges thinking that they needed to overreact to get their point across as to where the line was, and added a buffer zone to emphasize how angry they were.
The Miranda case, the reason for the “you have the right to remain silent” warning, is typical. They had physical evidence [fingerprints, ballistics, powder burns, residue], witness testimony including police officers, and just a ton of stuff, but they wanted a confession. I would have never even talked to Miranda, beyond asking him if he add an alibi, so I could prove that it was bogus [he did, it was]. The conviction was thrown out along with the confession, but he was re-tried and convicted because of all of the evidence. The confession was a total waste of time, and totally unnecessary.
Cops tend to be their own worst enemy.
Don’t get me started on police record keeping. Your problem, records that are supposed to be expunged still in the system, or, more common, an arrest record, but no indication of the resolution, was the bane of my existence when I was doing employment background checks, as well as records checks at traffic stops. This is also a problem for people coming into the US under the new rules. There is a record of someone about their age being arrested, but not enough information to clearly identify the individual and no record of disposition.
Police records are like a library of books that only contain chapter one.
Keep that court order close. Anything that starts from that record is probably automatically inadmissible in court as “fruit of the poisoned tree”.
Yeah! Paperwork was always a problem. I think it’s even worse now in many ways with the electronic systems in parallel with the paper system. They are often out of sync.
I may have caused the Police some grief (though it wasn’t my fault they went way too far), but My superiors at DIO made my life hell for awhile after! They did their own thorough internal investigation of course, and while they found that I hadn’t committed any crime, I’d been stupid and if I ever did anything like that ever again, I’d be expunged! (They have no sense of humor either and don’t suffer fools at all well… at least, fools that make it obvious to anyone they are a fool!) 😆 *shrug* I still believe I was completely within my rights and had a moral obligation to peruse the course I’d chosen. Still, the *way* I did it was probably not the best. I was still young and a tad naive about the *way things are done* back then. My boss told me that the next time I get a suicidal urge to *do the right thing* to check with him first or he’d hang me out to dry. Nice to get support from one’s superiors, isn’t it? 😉
dang, i feel so… so… so ineffectual. i can’t get arrested even when i commit a crime.
That’s not a crime hipparchia!
Hmmm… Unless you are a Democrat that is. Repugs can get away with murder apparently, or torture… or anything they like.
The standard non-system for implementing electronic records in government offices in the US is to buy computers and software, but then expect the same clerks who have been filing paper records to magically be able to input those records into the computer without any training, and to do it will while continuing to maintain the paper files. It always goes over so well.
Naturally the software does not match the forms that are being entered, so there is no flow to the work, and the paper must be retained and available by law.
I wrote a system [CICS – Cobol for a 360] at my department, and we didn’t have a major problem, but few departments have anyone with any actual experience on the job to write an RFP, much less write the code. Most departments get stuck with the cookie-cutter crap put out by a vendor that doesn’t seem to work effectively for anyone.
The level of paranoia today about getting touched by civilians is amazing, Hipparchia. I would suggest you try it again, especially down here. At least you don’t get as much pollution of the crime scenes as people wear gloves for fear of aids.
The forms thing definitely is important, yet so many software vendors refuse to consider it. My first job in that field was implementing a student discipline tracking system. So I made a nice little form that encapsulated all the required fields for state and federal reporting of incidents, and proudly presented it to the discipline coordinator of a school district. He looked at it, looked at the official state reporting form in his hand, shoved said form into my hands, and said “I want it to look like this. In three days.” I think I got three hours of sleep total during those three days :-). But we got accurate data.
Regarding the cops, what amazes me today is that so many of today’s cops are so obviously scared. They don’t reach for their tasers because they’re sadists. They reach for their tasers because they’re scared shitless of the civilians they’re supposed to be dealing with.
I swear, the old meat-headed paddies of my youth might have been sometimes brutal and not at all concerned with the niceties of the law when it came to dishing out justice as they saw it, but at least they weren’t scared shitless of the public they were supposed to be serving and protecting. Which meant that they could come into a situation without automatically escalating it, and resolve things like fights and such without having to taser everybody involved and haul them off in a paddy wagon in flexicuffs. Those old-timers had stones that clanged. Today’s ball-less wonders…. you even give them a mean look, and ZAPP! “Your honor, the suspect scared me!” Err… marshmallows, dudes. Marshmallows, I said. Ain’t nothin’ clangin’ there, that’s for sure.
– Badtux the Cop Shop Penguin
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I used to hate doing the crime stats reports, because the forms for the NY State Police had almost nothing in common with the Justice Department forms, the crimes weren’t even classified in the same way, i.e. robbery is theft with violence, so it was one crime for the state, but two crimes for the Feds. This means the reports don’t mesh and you can’t directly compare the two.
My solution was to use the state form, and then break things out in the internal code to produce the Fed report. This involve sitting down with the damn Penal Law of NY and plugging crimes into the Federal slots.
You’re right about cops today being unwilling to make contact with the public. They have switched from the metal fence to plexiglass in the patrol cars, and other forms of separation. Hell, I have seen a cop use any of the standard “come along” holds in so long that they must not teach them anymore. If you are not going to make contact, you are not going to control the situation.
I see no evidence of the standard practice of stepping up to the level of force required, they immediately jump to the top of the pyramid, but then I was always more in favor of keeping the peace than enforcing laws, because we had/have a lot of stupid laws on the books.
what badtux said. marshmallows.
though to be fair, it’s probably all the paramilitary training [and equipment] they’re getting these days. the automatic assumption that the other guy is out to kill you is more a feature than a bug on the battlefield; bart stations, not so much.
i dunno bryan, once was in alabama, the other in louisiana.
keeping the peace [i notice the term ‘peace officer’ doesn’t get used much these days] and de-escalation are lost arts. i’ve been through an abbreviated verion of gerbil voodoo training, and yeah, it seems to be used mostly as a going-through-the-motions excuse to ramp up to full force as quickly as possible.
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oh dear, kryten, you’re not implying that i look like a republican, are you?
Hipparchia, I really hate the way Charlie Morris has instituted the military philosophy into the Sheriff’s Department. The jobs are totally different, as are the people you are dealing with. Running around in BDUs is not a good thing. Passing out automatic weapons is not a good thing. None of this paramilitary crap is a good thing.
This country is no more violent than it ever was, outside of a few large cities, but the police have become paranoid.
Nawwwww! I was just making a general and, what appears to me to be, an accurate statement. If a repug get’s arrested, chances are they’ll get off easily. *shrug* Maybe that’s why so many crooks become repugs? Once they proove they are *one of them*, they get a free pass for just about everything.
And no… I’m not a cynic, just observant and honest (which means I’d never make it as a repug either) 😉 😆
You aught to know by now hipparchia dear that only the good people pay for the sins of the evil ones. 🙂