A Professional Note
No experienced interrogator questions anyone without a tape running. This is even more critical if the interrogation is not in the questioner’s native language. Even with a transcript, you preserve the tape, as an analyst may want a new translation to check something that was learned from another source.
It is ludicrous to claim that the only records of an interrogation of an important target are hand-written notes. That is not the way professionals do it.
The tapes also serve as leverage to open up other suspects – letting them hear what their “friends” have said about their involvement. It is much more effective that just telling them.
23 comments
not a problem. we’ve got copies of all their phone records, emails, text messages, youtube videos, google searches… much more accurate and informative than the pack of lies they’ve told us just because we got their faces wet, the wimps.
😈
Everyone is talking like the set of videos of one interrogation is all that exists. That might be the only video, but there have to be audio tapes somewhere, because not even the CIA would run an interrogation without them.
When you are torturing people, maybe it’s different. Maybe you don’t want any witnesses. Maybe you aren’t trying to get information, you’re just trying to soften the victim up, get him to say what you want, but then clean him up before you put him in front of the cameras.
Isn’t that how torture regimes work?
Of course, professionals don’t torture. Period.
Right you are Bryan. I spent many an hour boxing tapes to send to Ft. Mead. Everything was recorded and kept for later analysis if necessary. Even manual morse intercepts that we captured on paper were recorded so we could go back and check on it if necessary. I don’t think people realize how obsessive the NSA/CIA etc. are about recording. If I told you that the government records the entire radio spectrum from VLF to UHF 24×7 at several points around the world you would think I was lying….
That’s very much to the point, Michael – if they don’t have the tapes, they weren’t asking questions. The absence of tapes means they were just brutalizing people for no good reason. If it’s important – it’s taped.
The obvious stupidity of waterboarding is that no one can talk while they are drowning.
Actually, having been in the business, as you were, FM, I’m well aware of the obsession with recording everything. The analysts at headquarters assume that people in field are incompetent bunglers and check everything that looks even slightly interesting.
As I keep on telling everybody, at least one set of tapes will be found in the back of Georgie’s sock drawer….
The whole Hedgemony are a bunch of creeps.
bunch of creeps is right.
They don’t have the courage to attack directly, but you can’t turn your back on them.
Hi all,
First time here. Amazing what Google finds when you string the right sequence of characters together! 😉
I worked in the intelligence services (in Aus. DIO & others) many years ago. We worked with US agencies sometimes. I can assure you all that any and all interviews or interrogations are taped, and usually double taped (we used special dual recorders). And there are hidden mic’s in the cells and interview rooms also (for when they either get so exhausted – sleep deprivation – they begin talk to the walls, or they talk in their sleep etc). I was part of a joint mission once in the USA, and everything was recorded and photographed in every way possible. These days it’s all done digitally of course. 🙂
So, they have either become amazingly inept over the past couple decades, or they are lying (which would be par for the course!)
I remember once at a briefing with a new Director and the local liaison from the US Embassy, the new Director asked if the liaison always told us everything. The liaison said “Of course!” with a big smile (what else), and the Director said, “Well, that will be a change!” What the US liaison didn’t know was that we had been double checking the reports for a few months with the *another Embassy’s Intelligence liaison* who was very friendly (we helped them, they helped us). Well, that and the fact that they loved embarrassing the US! And we had found several omissions in the US liaison’s reports. I liked the new Director. 🙂 He trusted nobody and checked everything! It made our jobs a little harder initially, but better eventually.
We had a standing joke 20+ years ago: “When you want to know what the American’s are up to, go ask the Russians!” (these days I’m told the joke has changed to “Chinese”).
I think they are lying, IMHO.
Welcome, Kryten. Things were much simpler in the days of the Cold War.
When I see the all-day recorders that are the size of a wallet and think about the 50 pound “portable” recorders we used, you just know everything has multiple recorders running because CIA doesn’t trust NSA doesn’t trust DIA, etc. and they are nominally in the same government.
The CIA is specifically talking about “two video tapes”, so it will not “technically” be lying when other video tapes are “discovered”, or the existence of other forms of recording are “found” [probably showing up on YouTube].
Oh, rumor has it that the KGB found out about the SS-22 from a CIA mole, because the GRU [Soviet military intel] had been lying to them about the missiles.
You can’t let too many people know the truth – it’s bad for the budget authorization.
Hi Brian,
Thanks for the welcome. 🙂 I think I may like it here. The only other blog I whose owner I respect that was a *spook* once is NO QUARTER! 🙂
And you are of course “technically” correct about the tapes. 🙂 I think the bigger point may be that they denied having any interrogation tapes at all to the 9/11 commission. As far as I can see, the CIA is damned either way.
Amazing what agencies will do to ensure their budgetary survival! Our National agency here, ASIO (kinda like the FBI) are known within the trade as incompetent (at best). I don’t know if you heard about the Hilton Hotel bombing in Sydney in ’78? There were many rumors about who did it and why. When I joined DIO sometime later, the rumor that was quietly believed internally was that ASIO were responsible. Apparently, the Federal Gov was looking to save some money and wanted some budget cuts. Rumor has it that ASIO were told that their budget for the next fiscal year would be cut since ASIO hadn’t done much during the past few years. So ASIO decided to *prove* their worth and uncover a terrorist bombing plot during CHOGRM. I do know that ASIO agents were logged on duty at the hotel at the time, because 12 foreign leaders including the Indian Prime Minister was staying there. The bomb was hidden in a garbage bin on the street. The story goes that a Garbage truck returning to the depot just before 2AM past the Hotel saw the bin, which was overflowing, and decided to do the right thing and empty the bin. When they operated the trash compactor the bomb exploded killing the 2 men and damaging the hotel.
Many questions were asked and never answered! One being, why was the only bin in the street that was not emptied that day in front of the Hilton Hotel where at least 12 VIP’s were staying? The NSW Parliament demanded an investigation, but the Federal Gov vetoed the inquiry. I know a lot more about this (from inside sources) but you get the idea.
I also know that ASIO were involved in another bombing some years after, but I believe that was due to incompetence on their part rather than actually causing that explosion.
We used to say that an ASIO agent couldn’t find his anus without an anatomical map and a Proctologist. LOL Nothing like inter-agency rivalry in the services! 😉
So… who does watch the watchers? 😉
Cheers! 😀
I was aware of the ’78 bombing, but was in law enforcement by then, having left the service to avoid the post-Vietnam rush and a pending promotion that would have pulled me out of the field and left me behind a desk.
Many people today think Osama created terrorism and forget the various European, Palestinian, and Japanese whackos we dealt with in the 1960s to 1980s, so a bombing in Australia didn’t surprise me, although I was surprised when I didn’t see any progress on the case, because your crew had a good hold on the Asian scene with more proficient linguists than we had. Americans don’t do well with Asian languages, for whatever reason.
In a way I would be encouraged if I thought the CIA was capable of pulling off something and keeping a secret, but they tended to bungle it every time. They wouldn’t last very long in a life of crime.
I understand you. I moved from the field in the early 80’s to a desk. I was in Cambodia on a UN mission. It changed everything for me. Even today, I don’t think I can honestly say that I have gotten over it. The difference now is, I think that’s a good thing! 🙂
After having a desk in Canberra for a few years, I left. I couldn’t bear it… all the stupid political games, and all the petty ego’s. It seems that you have similar feelings about the CIA as I do about ASIO. Isn’t it horrifying to think these are supposed to be our guardians from the threat of International Terrorism! *shaking head* What a joke! Just take the recent APEC Summit in Sydney (or… ‘the OPEC meeting in Austria’ as Bushmoron called it. You think his mind is on oil much?) LOL
All the press releases were: “The arrival in Sydney by U.S President George Bush has has seen the tightest security in Australia’s history.”
And what happened? An ABC (Aus not US) comedy crew with fake ID (that even stated on the ID that it was fake) dressed as Arabs, with one pretending to look like Osama, went through TWO security check points and got to within 12m of the Hotel GWB was staying at! They only got caught because they decided to get out and executed an illegal U-turn and were stopped by an ordinary cop! And ASIO got a huge budget increase for the APEC security! I guess their are still as incompetent as they were 30 years ago. Actually… I suppose that’s beyond incompetent.
And the amazing thing is that most of the sheeple here (yes, we have them too!) were outraged that the Chasers crew dared even try a stunt like that! How dare they! The very fact they succeeded seemed to be much to subtle for many people to grasp! Makes you want to smack yourself on the head with a bat. *sigh* Makes me wonder why I went through all the pain I did 30 years ago. I look at people today sometimes, and think they are not worth it.
Well, at least we well-and-truly kicked Howard and his bunch of incompetent bullies out! I guess some sanity seems to have prevailed for a change. 🙂 We can but hope! LOL
I think I’ll go check out your other posts here. I don’t want to monopolize one thread! 😉
I hope you and your family are all doing well.
Cheers!
Yep, it’s the politics that ruins people for the work. They forget what they are supposed to be doing and concentrate on the office and not on the real world. They also tend to shorten their timeline to the next performance review and miss the future implications of what they are doing – for example, creating armed Islamic fundamentalist groups, like al Qaeda and the Taliban, to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.
I read the ABC [Australian Broadcasting] website among the many foreign sources, because the American media frankly sucks. I loved that Chasers bit. The whole security routine for our pompous twit of a President is beyond absurd. Face it, who would attack him, with Dick Cheney poised to take over?
Until we get some sanity back in our government, it would be an excellent policy for your people to maintain some distance. Your new Prime Minister seems to have his priorities straight, but I admit that my favorite part of your election was the fact that along with his party losing, Howard lost his seat in parliament – I never claimed to be a Christian. 😈
Hahahahaha… Oh yes! I was frankly howling when Howard lost the seat he held for over 32 years! And a Labor candidate has never won the seat of Bennelong. 😀 And the wonderful irony of it is that it was an ex-ABC Political Reporter in her first campaign, Maxine McKew, who used to be is nemesis (she asked hard questions of Howard many times) as a reporter. She knew him well, and it paid off. I’m still laughing over that! LOL
When I was working intel in the 80’s, I learned a lot about the CIA funding and training groups like al Qaeda (and we were involved in a couple joint black-ops). And all the Panama & Central America stuff. I always just shook my head. it was obvious to anyone save it was a bad idea. Even helping Saddam rise to power in Iraq. The only reason Bushmoron/Darth Cheney invaded was because Saddam threatened to cut off oil supply to the USA and trade in Euro’s. Saddam was a bastard, but I worked Mid-East for a while (SA, UAE mainly) and in what is strange to a westerner, is that it usually takes a bastard to keep control there. Not saying Saddam was what they wanted or deserved… It’s all so complicated out there! Nothing in the Mid East is what it seems! Loyalties on the surface are not always the same as the ones deep inside the people there. Ehhh… It’s all way to complex to describe here unfortunately.
I really believe that almost all the problems the USA has now is because of the meddling (and usually incompetently) in external affairs. It’s not that the USA meddled, every nation does in some way, but the way it was done and the serious lack of real investigation of the consequences. When I worked with them, and my team brought up a concern, we were usually told it wasn’t important or not a problem at this time, or we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it, or it will be taken care of, etc. WTF does that mean? *shaking head* There were some good people though too. Now and then, I’d find an anonymous, typed, note after a meeting with a few answers, or at least hints, to unanswered questions. And a couple times, what question to ask at the next meeting! 🙂
It was the incredible arrogance that was the last straw for me. I got out when the superiors I respected decided to resign or retire and *suggested* I should consider my position and options. 🙂
My friend in Chicago (and others) say they read the Aus news sites to find out what’s going on in the USA. LOL Mind you… our media are not perfect either! Murdock owns some of them here too. 🙂 But our media watchdogs have more teeth than yours, and Aussies trust nothing in the press. LOL
Thanks for the discussion. 🙂 I’m enjoying it! I think I would have enjoyed working with you many years ago… way back when… LOL Yeah… times were different.
Cheers. 🙂
Oops! Note to self: Never comment when I am in a hurry! *sigh* Typo’s… 😉
“…who used to be is nemesis…” should be “…who used to be his nemesis…”
“it was obvious to anyone save…” should be “It was obvious to anyone sane…”
You know… I have been chatting with old buddies and colleague’s over the years… you know the type: “what happened?” “where did it go wrong?” “What changed?” etc.. The conclusion we eventually came to was that first, it all became just a political tool, and second, the agents and other staff just became wage slaves. You know… family to feed, mortgage, etc. And were more afraid of loosing their income than they were about doing the right job. (I know that’s not completely accurate, and doesn’t apply to everyone. Some were just lazy, some crooked, some ignorant, and some just stupid. And a few did try to do the right thing.) There was always the thought at the back of one’s mind: “The Gov has all the power. If I don’t toe the line, they can make my life hell, or worse.”
I know. The Gov certainly has made me (and others) pay for trying to actually do the right thing. We had a thing called Honor. Not much of that around these days. It’s all about personal survival now.
Cheers. 🙂
That’s the problem the new administration in the US is going to face, the good people left service when it became politicized and a lot of positions are filled with cronies and incompetents – ask anyone who has flown through a US airport and met the mindless, arrogant jerks in security and customs.
If, by some miracle, we get reasonably universal health care coverage in the US, stand by for a huge shift in people, because there are a lot of people in both government and industry who only stay for the health insurance. That is, in too many cases, the “whip” used to keep people in line.
I think the coming shift will be even larger than that, some of it very bad. People are being foreclosed, I gather, and winding up very much upside down on their mortgages.
Hi Michael, and Bryan. 🙂
Not just foreclosed, dying. Even with Insurance! I read those stories with horror. Like poor Nataline Sarkisyan recently. After watching Moore’s Sicko… it was eye opening.
Howard tried to destroy heathcare here, and partially succeeded. But it’s not too bad here.
I hear about the healthcare insurance being the reason why people stay in jobs they would normally leave from my friends there. It’s just a form blackmail to me really. The Capitalists there are simply blackmailing people with their own health. I guess we know where all the Mafia went! 🙂
Cheers.
Actually, a little real capitalism and real risk would clean things up, getting rid of many of the corporations who were forced to pay for bad decisions. The current corporatism is protecting them while screwing the consumers.
Small business are eliminated all the time, while corporations get subsidies and court protection.
I hear that! And agree.
The Gov here (before Howard) protected the small companies and helped them grow. Then it all got complicated… *sigh*
The ACCC here tries to keep the big bastards honest, but really, there is only so much they can do. They often slap Telstra with million dollar fines, and Telstra just pays it and laughs, while sill making huge profits. Same with the banks.
I don’t know how it can be fixed any more. It’s so endemic.